brisca

Well, that means that there are at least THREE very happy people here then bil (You, me and Rosemary - oh, and not forgetting Twyntub and family )

I'm glad your experiences have been positive ones.

bil

I find the people there delightful, friendly and very open. I'm sure as you say there are the odd two faced ones, but when we wanted to sell our piece of land in the UK, we found we were surrounded by back stabbing hypocritical b*stards.

I can sure as hell live with the possibility of a couple in Spain!

Plus I'd rather be miserable in the sun than in the rain!!

poshnbucks

We are happy, Mrs Posh and I also that nice Mr Twyntub helped me when my red balls were not up to scratch........Well they didn't scratch but bla bla

poshnbucks

Now couldnt you picture yourself sitting there in the evening with a glass of wine.......Ohhhhhh A view to die for..........Oh yes it ticks all the boxes......
All it needs is just a bit of imagination.......Oh you said you wanted a building project ...................Any other annoying things these morans who have a 35000 budget and then at the end say.............Will have to go home and rearrange the pennys ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Cleri

Rosemary

Agree with everything you said in your previous post Sam.

For me it is the little things that occur that make me realise that we are accepted. The gifts of oranges etc although very welcome are not what makes living here wonderful but the thoughtful kindnesses shown.

My neighbours daughter and her friends were very concerned that I was not going out enough so dragged me to the coffee bar and told me that I should think of them as friends and that I should join in with them. When we were out painting the streets for a fiesta I was feeling unwell and went indoors, could not go out the following day and was sent some medication by one of the neighbours. Last Christmas 6 neighbours clubbed together to buy me a bouquet of flowers and said that it was because I was a good neighbour. Recently when I had to go to see a specialist the receptionist at our doctors organised for a friend of his who speaks English to accompany me so that I would not be so nervous (I tried to pay but was firmly told that it was a favour). This week a lady asked why I had not been to the swimming pool yet this summer, I only went once last summer which is when I met her and have only seen her a couple of times since.

We help one young lady with her English as she needs it for work but apart from her we have no-one to speak English with as they all speak Valenciano in our town and the only time we mix with Brits is via this forum and therefore at the rare BE meet ups that have occurred.

The only influence that 'Place in the Sun' had on us moving to Spain was the fact that when they were showing an episode about someone looking in a little town in France I commented to my husband that it would have been a perfect place for us. This encouraged us to discuss moving abroad as he had never broached the subject because he thought that I would not wish to move out of the UK. So the programme only acted as a conversation starter but I am so glad that it did as I have never felt so 'at home' in the UK and do not regret moving here.

Each to their own though, probably the vast majority of Brits living in Spain would hate our life and pick fault it in but it suits us, we are content.

Rosemary

Fortaleza

I think you just described every area of Spain where there is a cluster of expats.

I find it curious that when you see the communities from other nationalities gathered here in Spain, they support and encourage each other - I'm thinking of those form Eastern European countires, and moreover Latin American countries. Sure, they gather together and stick to themselves a lot much the same as the Brits do, but their network is supportive and there's a real sense of solidarity.

With too many of the Brits - obviously not all - there exists jealousy and a willingness for the other to fail, but rarely say it to their face. It really is like a survival of the fittest, as each of them jockeys for position. Every time I have to visit one of these areas (which I try and keep to a minimum) I have to buy a new shirt as the one I was wearing is full holes from the back-stabbing.

bil

That is absolutely, totally how I have experienced life in the UK. When my father died in the early sixties, and we moved back to my mother's village of birth, she bought a ruin of a house with a large garden.

We did it up, bit by bit. When she bought it she was laughed at for buying an old ruin, and when it ended up as a valuable property, it caused us no end of problems with the rampant envy and spite engendered by our living there.

In the UK, there is a huge amount of the spite and envy you describe.

When I mention I plan to go to Spain, the vast majority of people say 'Oh you'll be back' 'You'll get bored' and so on.

It is said with smug malevolence and you really get an insight into that person. God forbid you should ever have to go back, because they will then proceed to rub it in your face.

spain

well said - karma sent

clariss

In reply to the comment about a lot of Spanish being xenophobic, misogynist etc. living in rural Andalucia isn't exactly an example of Spanish in general I don't think you'd find that generally in larger towns and cities.

Fortaleza

I've lived in Catalonia, Madrid and Andalucia and I've travelled extensively throughout the country - in fact moreso than the I've done the UK - and I understand where Hillybilly is coming from. It is not just Andalucia, it is prevalent everywhere. But then the same could be said of all countries, as has been said by various posters.

We could go a bit deeper and look at the socio-political factors for this - lets face it, this phase of democracy is only just over 30 years old, or a single generation. What was Britain like of the Mid-Seventies, 30 years into post-war democracy? I think we certainly could have attached those offending adjectives to life in general even though change was afoot. This was the heyday of forward thinkers such as Bernard Manning, Alf Garnett, Jim Davidson's 'Chalky', Carry On movies - many things that if they were broadcast today as fresh, new shows reflecting the attitudes of today, there would be uproar. As the generations moved on, so have British attitudes (although all is not, and never will be, rosy).

Spain has made some incredible strides in 30 years, but it is easy to forget - and many, many Spaniards forget this too - that this is still a young democracy and it will take time to effect real change.

But going deeper into the issue is boring!!!

gallerie9

We live in a Spanish community with a handfull of British familys living in the area .
We get on well with most of them, but you cant get on with every one, because the same green eyed monster that is in the UK is here as well.

So you tend to socialize with the same people or the same type of people you would in the UK. If they are not your type in the UK, they are not going to be your type in Spain, just because you are english does not mean that you are forced to socialize.

Hillybilly

I do live in a large town (well, technically it's actually classified as a city) and that is how I have found it to be. Even my more "modern" and, dare I say, more educated and travelled Spanish friends think the same of many of their fellow compatriots.

With regards to "integration" it's a two way street. You can't integrate unless you're permitted to. Almost without exception every expat I've met maintains that they've integrated and are welcomed into the community. I think it depends on what you term "integrated".

Many think that because they go to their local bar or shop and are greeted by name and kissed on the cheeks and are able to order their drinks and food in Spanish and maybe get free tapas like the locals or even a drink "on the house" that this constitutes integration. It doesn't. That is just (or should be) regular customer service.

Maybe it's easier to be accepted if you're retired or early retired because you don't present any threat but I don't see many expats who've gained meaningful employment alongside/with the Spanish or who work in/represent their communities or are asked to serve on public bodies etc.

On the other hand almost every expat I've met (and I meet a lot through my work) has experienced some form of discrimination - being overcharged, being refused work, being laid off first, being turned down for grants/apprenticeships, generally being put at the bottom of the pile, verbal or non-verbal rudeness/abuse/bullying, denial of services etc.

Don't get me wrong, it's no different to what goes on back in the UK and personally it's water off a duck's back but I certainly no longer see the Spanish (as a generalised whole) through the rose coloured glasses I once did when I first moved here (naive, forgiving, ignorant of the law and not able to understand the lingo so well!).

Fortaleza, that is exactly how I excuse many things here (young democracy).

bil

Interesting. A bit like fluency, integration seems to mean so many different things, it is almost worthless.

I live in two similar areas. The one in Spain is a dead end campo road where 95% of the 'traffic' is those that live there. More is foot traffic than wheeled, and the people are open, polite and pleasant with a friendly word. We get invited in for meals and coffee.

The UK one is a close with similar ratios of traffic, but the people are withdrawn, and after two years living there, we only really know 1 family, and have been inside one house briefly.

I may not be integrated in Spain according to the purists, but then I sure as hell am not integrated in the UK worth a damn.

Rosemary

I think that you have probably hit the nail on the head with this statement.

Fear that incomers are taking your jobs is one of the biggest causes of problems for people who move to a different place. At one point I lived in Cornwall and anyone from a different area in UK was viewed with suspicion by many Cornish people.

Rosemary