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Paint.. Exterior

Paint.. Exterior

Old Jun 14th 2011, 2:00 am
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Default Re: Paint.. Exterior

Originally Posted by bil
I've been using plasticised paint on my walls for a while now, and I've never had any peel off yet. The old, breathing paint? That pops and peels like a mad thing.
How old is your house and what is the construction?
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Old Jun 14th 2011, 2:36 am
  #17  
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Default Re: Paint.. Exterior

Originally Posted by johnnyone
How old is your house and what is the construction?
45 years, solid wall standard Spanish construction.

I'd be grateful if you could clear this up for me. The world and his wife tell me that I need breathable paint, but it is starting to sound more and more counterintuitive.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying that it seems to me that the problems experienced by myself and others seem like efflorescent spalling, where the walls wick up ground water which contains salts in solution. In winter, this 'salty' water wicks up the wall, and the water evaporates thru the breathable layer, leaving salts to build up in the plaster. Summer comes, and the walls dry as the water table drops. The salts crystallise out and as they form crystals these expand and fragment the plaster making it 'spall'.

Surely the solution to the problem is to repair the plaster and seal the surface, inside and out? n effect, 'tanking' it.

I notice the the previous poster covered his wall with cladding, but still reported what sounds like salt spalling in the mortar between the cladding.
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Old Jun 14th 2011, 6:32 am
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Default Re: Paint.. Exterior

From my experience if you paint over a wall with rising damp what, normally happens is- after time the paint blisters, then a hole apears and the render behind the paint falls out in the form of sandy dust.

One job I done a room had a continuous damp problem on, I hacked off the render, painted the brickwork with rubber roofing paint aprox 1m up and re rendered

That solved the damp on the inside, but now the owner has noticed that the paint on the out side is now degrading as the damp is trying to find a way to escape.

So that tells me it is best to let the wall breath to let the damp out,
so I will probably have to stone clad the out side or re render with monocap
1m up

If you go to your local builders merchant you can get a webber catalouge which gives examples of damp and products to make good.
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Old Jun 14th 2011, 7:55 am
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Default Re: Paint.. Exterior

Originally Posted by tony
From my experience if you paint over a wall with rising damp what, normally happens is- after time the paint blisters, then a hole apears and the render behind the paint falls out in the form of sandy dust.

One job I done a room had a continuous damp problem on, I hacked off the render, painted the brickwork with rubber roofing paint aprox 1m up and re rendered

That solved the damp on the inside, but now the owner has noticed that the paint on the out side is now degrading as the damp is trying to find a way to escape.

So that tells me it is best to let the wall breath to let the damp out,
so I will probably have to stone clad the out side or re render with monocap
1m up

If you go to your local builders merchant you can get a webber catalouge which gives examples of damp and products to make good.
Hmmm. What it doesn't tell me is how exactly breathable paint prevents efflorescent/salt spalling?

It also tells me that once you painted a NON BREATHING paint onto the inside, it cured the problem on the inside, and the problem appeared on the outside, where the paint may well have been damaged, or breatheable. See What I mean?

You have just said that painting on waterproof, non breathing paint DID cure the problem.

The external degragation may have started BEFORE there was a damp related problem.

Do you see what I'm trying to say here?
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Old Jun 14th 2011, 6:07 pm
  #20  
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Default Re: Paint.. Exterior

hi I can only report what I have seen from my personal experiance of working here for 8 years

the previous job I was talking about I had painted the outside of the house about a year befor with a good quality plastic exterior paint, and up to the point that I damp proofed the interior it was in good condition as the damp had been escaping into the inside of the house causing damage.

I have seen a lot of damp problems here in Spain and it is not an easy thing to fix, as most walls are made from hollow bricks or blocks making it almost imposible to inject a damp course

I am glad to here your house has no damp I think it is a case of luck here !!

All I can say is if the plastic paint works ok for you carry on using it

But I know FOR SURE in some cases it is no good

Cheers Tony
Attached Thumbnails Paint.. Exterior-damp-001.jpg   Paint.. Exterior-damp-002.jpg   Paint.. Exterior-damp-003.jpg  
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Old Jun 14th 2011, 10:07 pm
  #21  
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Default Re: Paint.. Exterior

Originally Posted by tony
hi I can only report what I have seen from my personal experiance of working here for 8 years

the previous job I was talking about I had painted the outside of the house about a year befor with a good quality plastic exterior paint, and up to the point that I damp proofed the interior it was in good condition as the damp had been escaping into the inside of the house causing damage.

I have seen a lot of damp problems here in Spain and it is not an easy thing to fix, as most walls are made from hollow bricks or blocks making it almost imposible to inject a damp course

I am glad to here your house has no damp I think it is a case of luck here !!

All I can say is if the plastic paint works ok for you carry on using it

But I know FOR SURE in some cases it is no good

Cheers Tony

Tony, I have exactly that problem. The ground water has been wicking up into the walls for the last 45 years, evaporating out thru the breathing paint and leaving the salts behind. Every time the walls dry out a bit, the salts crystallise and shatter the plaster. So far this has only happened where the old paint is, and not where I have scraped the old paint off and put on the plastic.

I'm just trying to look at this logically here. I would be grateful if you (or anyone else) can point out if and where my chain of logic is faulty.

1. The problem is caused by salts drying out in the wall.
2. You can't remove the salts, neither can you install a damp course to stop
more coming in.
3. Tanking the walls would work. Therefore it isn't the moisture causing the
problem, it's the drying out that does it.
4. If you prep the wall so the paint can adhere properly then plastic paint is
like tanking on a small scale.
5. The wall will remain damp internally, but that won't actually cause a
problem, it will prevent it.

I just hear everyone repeating the litany 'Must Have Breatheable Paint!' and I'm starting to question this.

I'd appreciate your input please.
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Old Jun 14th 2011, 10:25 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: Paint.. Exterior

Hi Bil

Yes the damage normally starts up a way where the damp drys out then spreads downwards

I have tryed making good the damage and re painting ( with various products and paints) but after time the problem always comes back

I have evan in the past skimmed with water proof swiming pool adhesive

but even with time that holes and dust falls out from behind

As I said before the only thing that I have found to work so far is to hack off paint with roofing paint and re render ( but even doing that it would still be possible for the water to wick up above the level of the roofing paint and escape at a higher level) although I have not had that problem as the water is escaping from the out side.

If you have found a paint that holds the water in the wall that is great, but as up to now I have not.

All the best Tony
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Old Jun 14th 2011, 10:37 pm
  #23  
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Default Re: Paint.. Exterior

So if you are holding the water in the wall what is happening to the wall itself. Surely the water being held in is doing some form of damage?

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Old Jun 14th 2011, 11:03 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: Paint.. Exterior

Originally Posted by The Oddities
So if you are holding the water in the wall what is happening to the wall itself. Surely the water being held in is doing some form of damage?

Rosemary
No, that's the point. It isn't the water that does the damage. It's the salt it brings up. Even that wouldn't matter were it not for the fact that the water evaporates, and more takes its place bringing yet more salt.

Water will wick up quite a distance, but if everything is tanked.....
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Old Jun 14th 2011, 11:06 pm
  #25  
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Default Re: Paint.. Exterior

Originally Posted by tony
Hi Bil

Yes the damage normally starts up a way where the damp drys out then spreads downwards

I have tryed making good the damage and re painting ( with various products and paints) but after time the problem always comes back

I have evan in the past skimmed with water proof swiming pool adhesive

but even with time that holes and dust falls out from behind

As I said before the only thing that I have found to work so far is to hack off paint with roofing paint and re render ( but even doing that it would still be possible for the water to wick up above the level of the roofing paint and escape at a higher level) although I have not had that problem as the water is escaping from the out side.

If you have found a paint that holds the water in the wall that is great, but as up to now I have not.

All the best Tony
Tony, so what you are saying is that as long as the paint holds, and as long as you paint the whole surface, it will work.

Now for the second point.

Do you agree that a breatheable paint will actually make things worse as it will allow the water to escape, causing more to wick up and deposit yet more salt?
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Old Jun 15th 2011, 12:04 am
  #26  
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Default Re: Paint.. Exterior

HI bil

Yes if the paint works the damp can not escape into the room

IF you can find a paint that will stay long term on a damp wall a guess it would be better than a breathable render or paint that deposits salt, but I have yet to find one , if you could recomend a paint that would be great .

Any way can we talk about something else now, how about solar water heaters !
I like talking about them!

Did you know a vacuum tube can boil water in less than three hours, in the spanish sun !

Tony
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Old Jun 15th 2011, 12:49 am
  #27  
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Default Re: Paint.. Exterior

Originally Posted by tony
HI bil

Yes if the paint works the damp can not escape into the room

IF you can find a paint that will stay long term on a damp wall a guess it would be better than a breathable render or paint that deposits salt, but I have yet to find one , if you could recomend a paint that would be great .

Any way can we talk about something else now, how about solar water heaters !
I like talking about them!

Did you know a vacuum tube can boil water in less than three hours, in the spanish sun !

Tony


So I'm right, and all the calls for a breatheable paint are shite, because the breatheable paint will make it worse. Plus, a plastic paint will either stop the problem or make it less bad.

I'd say that was two - nil for plastic paint!

As for solar water. To be honest, that's not impressive. I can melt lead in less than 3 minutes with sunlight, and using far simpler technology.
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Old Jun 15th 2011, 1:02 am
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Default Re: Paint.. Exterior

Hey bil

Do you think the world will end in 2012?

if so who cares about the paint !! unless it only stays on for 3 months !!

But seriously good luck to you if your idea of paint only works.

maybe we should ask other people how they have overcome damp

I AM ONLY INTERESTED IN FINDING A GOOD SOLUTION, not getting one up on you or anybody else

If I can promote a good solution that works to my clients thats good for me and them !!

Cheers Tony

ps did you use a magnifying glass to melt the lead ?
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Old Jun 15th 2011, 1:12 am
  #29  
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Default Re: Paint.. Exterior

Originally Posted by tony
Hey bil

Do you think the world will end in 2012?

if so who cares about the paint !! unless it only stays on for 3 months !!

But seriously good luck to you if your idea of paint only works.

maybe we should ask other people how they have overcome damp

I AM ONLY INTERESTED IN FINDING A GOOD SOLUTION, not getting one up on you or anybody else

If I can promote a good solution that works to my clients thats good for me and them !!

Cheers Tony

ps did you use a magnifying glass to melt the lead ?


Tony, I'm not trying to start a fight here. I just want to know where the truth of the matter is.

For a long time now the 'let it breathe' claims have been niggling at me, and I wanted to see whether my thoughts on the subject were correct.

In future, I will simply be doing as I have in the past. I shall remove the loose, seal the plaster with a thin solution of plastic paint, fill and paint over that. I suspect that all the cases of paint failing are down to inadequate preparation, incorrect application, or using paint that allows moisture thru.

Painting is a pain in the arse job, and I don't want to have to do it every couple of years, let alone every year!

Ten out of ten on the magnifying glass. I don't wish to be negative about solar power, but what a lot of people fail to realise is that there are only so many kilowatts per hour falling on a sq metre that is perfectly aligned to the sun. In short, a fixed one, will only work at max strength for a comparatively brief period in the middle of the day, and for the rest of the sunlight hours it operates on average at half strength.

Plus, it's all down to size of catchment area relative to water volume.

For me there's an additional problem. I have two bathrooms and a kitchen all so separated from each other that a single system would have a huge time run for the hot water to reach the taps, with corresponding waste each time the tap is used.
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Old Jun 15th 2011, 1:47 am
  #30  
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Default Re: Paint.. Exterior

HI Bil,

Because the building game is poor at the moment, I have been working in solar water heating ( got to feed the family some how !!)

The type of unit i deal with is vacuum tube compact indirct units

ie the tank is joined directly to the collector as one unit, the tubes contain water which is heated by the sun, as the water is heated it rises up the tube and then into the hiighest part of the tank, as it cools it goes back to the lowest point of the tube, and so that contiues( thermo syphon )

the water in the tank is not used directly, it heats a copper coil heat exchanger, and that is what you pass your mains water through to get hot water.

I have tested the system on my own home befor going into buissiness and it works very well , I get about 80 to 90% of my yearly hot water free.

Vacuum tubes are not so sensative to positioning as they have a tubuler surface the sun tracks around them as it moves

A good way of installation is to pre heat ie send the cold water up to the swh then feed the return back into a normal elactrical cylinder ,

that way the cylinder will only cut in if the weather is poor, it also makes the system automatic, and less problems with running off loads of water befor the hot gets to the tap.

Tony
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