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Padron - new rules?

Padron - new rules?

Old Jul 16th 2010, 2:17 pm
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Default Padron - new rules?

I have just read an item in a magazine published in one of the Costas. It said "A reader has reported a new bureaucratic hurdle for the 'foreigners' erected by the Spanish Administration, which emanated from INE (Instituo Nacional de Estadistica). The registration in the 'Padron Municipal' (list of habitants) must now be renewed every second year. If one does not re-register as the bureaucrats demand one will automatically be kicked out of the list and lose the benefits of being on the Padron: losing discounts on local taxes, voting rights etc. A visit to the town hall does not sound too bad but the problem lies in the requirement to present at the registration a document from the National Police station confirming your NIE. It must be a recent document, any bureaucrat may refuse one which he/she considers too old. More queues for you. One must also take their 'Original ID'. For many citizens, who do not have a valid Residence Card (not the paper certificate) or a National ID cards, the only valid ID is there original passport, not a copy! In addition to the many foreigners now actively selling their dwellings and leaving Spain, this new measure will certainly lead to other foreigners being forced out of the Padron because they do not know about the new rule, while others will refuse to be herded around and stand in the long queues. Others may think: This is only the citizens from outside the EU or EEC, certainly not for European citizens, but it applies to all non-Spanish European citizens. It should be noted that whilst this 'new instruction' from Instituto Nacional de Estadistica has applied to some parts of Spain for the past eighteen months, some Municipalities have not heard of it."

My local one has not heard of it. Can anyone confirm whether this is true as I don't know whether to always believe what is printed in magazines especially when they begin with "A reader has reported" - which might be only a rumour.
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Old Jul 16th 2010, 3:26 pm
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Default Re: Padron - new rules?

Certainly something is happening but it is not entirely clear what the situation is.

In a newspaper report (Diario Sur in English) it is said that:-

"According to the National Office of Statistics (INE), the renewal period will depend on whether you originally registered with a residence certificate or with a passport. If you are a resident, you need to confirm your padrón status after the first five years and every two years if you registered using your passport".

I have also read that if you are affected you will be notified by post that you need to confirm your entry on the Padron.

The Sur article is at
http://www.surinenglish.com/20100507...005071306.html
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Old Jul 16th 2010, 3:38 pm
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Default Re: Padron - new rules?

Originally Posted by Fred James
Certainly something is happening but it is not entirely clear what the situation is.

In a newspaper report (Diario Sur in English) it is said that:-

"According to the National Office of Statistics (INE), the renewal period will depend on whether you originally registered with a residence certificate or with a passport. If you are a resident, you need to confirm your padrón status after the first five years and every two years if you registered using your passport".

I have also read that if you are affected you will be notified by post that you need to confirm your entry on the Padron.

The Sur article is at
http://www.surinenglish.com/20100507...005071306.html
possibly the most important part of the article -
People shouldn't panic," says Joanna Drozdowska from Benalmádena's Foreigners' Department. "There is always a long time for adaption for new laws such as this when they come in
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Old Jul 16th 2010, 6:04 pm
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Default Re: Padron - new rules?

Originally Posted by Cats-R-Us
I have just read an item in a magazine published in one of the Costas. It said "A reader has reported a new bureaucratic hurdle for the 'foreigners' erected by the Spanish Administration, which emanated from INE (Instituo Nacional de Estadistica). The registration in the 'Padron Municipal' (list of habitants) must now be renewed every second year. If one does not re-register as the bureaucrats demand one will automatically be kicked out of the list and lose the benefits of being on the Padron: losing discounts on local taxes, voting rights etc. A visit to the town hall does not sound too bad but the problem lies in the requirement to present at the registration a document from the National Police station confirming your NIE. It must be a recent document, any bureaucrat may refuse one which he/she considers too old. More queues for you. One must also take their 'Original ID'. For many citizens, who do not have a valid Residence Card (not the paper certificate) or a National ID cards, the only valid ID is there original passport, not a copy! In addition to the many foreigners now actively selling their dwellings and leaving Spain, this new measure will certainly lead to other foreigners being forced out of the Padron because they do not know about the new rule, while others will refuse to be herded around and stand in the long queues. Others may think: This is only the citizens from outside the EU or EEC, certainly not for European citizens, but it applies to all non-Spanish European citizens. It should be noted that whilst this 'new instruction' from Instituto Nacional de Estadistica has applied to some parts of Spain for the past eighteen months, some Municipalities have not heard of it."

My local one has not heard of it. Can anyone confirm whether this is true as I don't know whether to always believe what is printed in magazines especially when they begin with "A reader has reported" - which might be only a rumour.

What discounts are these then? I've never received a discount on any of the various taxes that I pay (car tax, IBI, building tax (for reforms), income tax etc..) and I've been on the padron from day 1 when I arrived here.
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Old Jul 16th 2010, 6:16 pm
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Default Re: Padron - new rules?

we went to our local town hall (Alhaurin el Grande) yesterday morning and signed on the padron, all we used was our rental agreement, our passports and about an hour of our time. Have no idea what benefits we are likely to get as we are tenants but at least the job is done now.
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Old Jul 16th 2010, 6:23 pm
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Default Re: Padron - new rules?

Originally Posted by jay01
we went to our local town hall (Alhaurin el Grande) yesterday morning and signed on the padron, all we used was our rental agreement, our passports and about an hour of our time. Have no idea what benefits we are likely to get as we are tenants but at least the job is done now.
Would that it were always so easy. Perhaps I should move to a different town.
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Old Jul 16th 2010, 6:25 pm
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Default Re: Padron - new rules?

This was mentioned on another thread, and as far as Benalmadena town hall are concerned they know nothing about it, but as soon as they hear of any changes they are going to let everyone in the area know.
You are supposed to sign on and then sign off when you leave the area.
The only renewal I know about is some government offices or schools like to see the date on the padrone under 3 months old, so you just go in and get an up to date copy.
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Old Jul 17th 2010, 7:41 am
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Default Re: Padron - new rules?

The 'two-year' rule is for non-Europeans.
The padrón is the town-hall register. When a Spaniard moves from one town to another and registers there, the 'new town' will automatically inform 'the old town' which will remove him from their records.
This system breaks down a bit when foreigners move away - perhaps back to their own country - as they almost certainly won't 'de-register'.
As far as voting goes (and despite the low commitment to 'readers rights' from some of our 'free press'), there will be information freely available nearer the time.
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Old Jul 17th 2010, 7:47 am
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Default Re: Padron - new rules?

Originally Posted by Lenox
The 'two-year' rule is for non-Europeans.
The padrón is the town-hall register. When a Spaniard moves from one town to another and registers there, the 'new town' will automatically inform 'the old town' which will remove him from their records.
This system breaks down a bit when foreigners move away - perhaps back to their own country - as they almost certainly won't 'de-register'.
As far as voting goes (and despite the low commitment to 'readers rights' from some of our 'free press'), there will be information freely available nearer the time.
yes we know about the 2 year rule - but the article states that Europeans have to re-register after 5 years

I started a thread almost a year ago about this - some people I know did in fact receive a 'request for renewal' of their padron

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...padron+renewal
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Old Jul 17th 2010, 8:54 am
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Default Re: Padron - new rules?

Originally Posted by lynnxa
yes we know about the 2 year rule - but the article states that Europeans have to re-register after 5 years

I started a thread almost a year ago about this - some people I know did in fact receive a 'request for renewal' of their padron

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...padron+renewal
I knew we had spoke about this before and it was old news.
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Old Jul 17th 2010, 9:25 am
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Default Re: Padron - new rules?

Five years for Europeans. That's right (for the reasons stated above - the town hall is usually not informed of 'bajas').
In our town, the local police check - we don't have to solemnly go and queue up waving our humiliating passport/letter from the immigration police combo.
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Old Jul 17th 2010, 3:15 pm
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Default Re: Padron - new rules?

Just a quickie take it this is for residents not people who have a house there but resident in UK at the minute and just make short visits?
Bob
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Old Jul 17th 2010, 3:26 pm
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Default Re: Padron - new rules?

Originally Posted by bobd22
Just a quickie take it this is for residents not people who have a house there but resident in UK at the minute and just make short visits?
Bob
yes, you're right

some areas have in the past encouraged all property owners to sign on the padron - whether they live there full time or not

in some areas this is still possible and even still encouraged

but it is supposed to be for residents only to do so
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Old Jul 17th 2010, 5:23 pm
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Default Re: Padron - new rules?

Originally Posted by lynnxa
yes, you're right

some areas have in the past encouraged all property owners to sign on the padron - whether they live there full time or not

in some areas this is still possible and even still encouraged

but it is supposed to be for residents only to do so
Absolutely correct - the law is quite clear, to sign on the Padron you must be resident in Spain which means living there for more than half of the year - in fact unless you are tax resident in Spain you probably don't qualify to be on the Padron.

Unfortunately, as you say, many town halls have encouraged people who do not live in Spain to sign on just because they have holiday homes in Spain - to increase the subsidy they get from central government.

Bearing in mind the current "crisis" I would not be surprised if the tax office did not look at the people on the Padron and for those who did not declare their income for tax in Spain to suddenly find they get a letter from the tax office!
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Old Jul 17th 2010, 7:02 pm
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Default Re: Padron - new rules?

I have to sadly admit that quite a few of the things I've signed up for in the past have lapsed or are about to, including the padron. I( spoke to my gestor and he advised me not to bother trying to keep up with the changes, he said that nobody knew what was happening, they're more concerned with the crisis than a few foreigners signing daft forms all over the place.

He assures me that I'm still 'legal', but some of these forum posts frighten me and I may get a second opinion.
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