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Ok don’t shoot the messenger ....

Ok don’t shoot the messenger ....

Old Sep 30th 2020, 9:31 pm
  #1  
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Default Ok don’t shoot the messenger ....

We already have had an apartment in Spain for the last 5 years.. We have NIE numbers. We have had Spanish bank accounts for 5 years with funds being paid in. We have paid accounts for several years.
However we have a problem that we have made a decision to move to Spain and our house in UK is not selling so thinking of renting but now won’t have the funds to put in bank account for residency but if hubby retires we
can . He is however still getting paid and would get paid if he works in Spain ....but needs to retire to get lump sum for residency.
So if we don’t have money in bank and we can’t complete residency at this minute, we now have problems after 90 days ?? So does he retire and we just go for it ...
Please don’t think we’ve not researched this. We’ve been in Spain 30 - 40 times in last 5 years researching for long periods. We’ve bought several apartments . We’ve learned a lot but we still want to be in Spain. Its the weather that’s pulling us in truth be told 😎
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Old Oct 1st 2020, 8:39 am
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Default Re: Ok don’t shoot the messenger ....

Have a look at the UK Gov website

​​​​​​https://www.gov.uk/guidance/residenc...tent=immediate

They also have loads of good advice on their Youtube channel
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Old Oct 1st 2020, 10:31 am
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Default Re: Ok don’t shoot the messenger ....

It sounds a bit like there are other factors that have delayed your decision making and are yet to be resolved?
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Old Oct 1st 2020, 3:24 pm
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Default Re: Ok don’t shoot the messenger ....

Originally Posted by Be happy View Post
He is however still getting paid and would get paid if he works in Spain ....
Are you sure this would work?
If he is employed by a UK employer and he lives in Spain, his employer can't keep him on UK payroll and continue deducting UK NICs and UK PAYE income tax as if he were still living in the UK. If he is doing the work in Spain, his income tax payments and social security contributions have to be made to Spain. Most UK employers don't want to touch that.
Maybe you have it sorted, in which case ignore me.
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Old Oct 1st 2020, 4:10 pm
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Default Re: Ok don’t shoot the messenger ....

Originally Posted by EuroTrash View Post
Are you sure this would work?
If he is employed by a UK employer and he lives in Spain, his employer can't keep him on UK payroll and continue deducting UK NICs and UK PAYE income tax as if he were still living in the UK. If he is doing the work in Spain, his income tax payments and social security contributions have to be made to Spain. Most UK employers don't want to touch that.
Maybe you have it sorted, in which case ignore me.
hey thanks for reply his employer suggested it as in line manager but I guess that’s not HR so they are not thinking of logistics. Defo food for thought. Need to look into this. Thanks.
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Old Oct 1st 2020, 4:14 pm
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Default Re: Ok don’t shoot the messenger ....

Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
It sounds a bit like there are other factors that have delayed your decision making and are yet to be resolved?
well COVID has definitely caused us problems as we worry about quarantines for visitors and for us returning which wouldn’t be regular but I also don’t want to not have choice of visiting my family especially in an emergency.

the plan was , sell house . Set retirement date, be in Spain for Nov 2020. We our house up for sale week of lockdown and only really had 6 weeks when we could legally have viewers. Now not allowed viewers again and we were considering renting house options but would not have the money in account required for residency. Thanks for reply
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Old Oct 1st 2020, 6:47 pm
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Default Re: Ok don’t shoot the messenger ....

Take it from someone who has rented out property in the UK before. It´s NOT worth all the hassle . Even what you might think are decent people simply do not care as it is not their own.
You´ll probably end up having to completely redecorate.
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Old Oct 1st 2020, 6:50 pm
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Default Re: Ok don’t shoot the messenger ....

Originally Posted by inbarcelona View Post
Take it from someone who has rented out property in the UK before. It´s NOT worth all the hassle . Even what you might think are decent people simply do not care as it is not their own.
You´ll probably end up having to completely redecorate.
yeah was considering that too ☹️
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Old Oct 1st 2020, 7:10 pm
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Default Re: Ok don’t shoot the messenger ....

Originally Posted by inbarcelona View Post
Take it from someone who has rented out property in the UK before. It´s NOT worth all the hassle . Even what you might think are decent people simply do not care as it is not their own.
You´ll probably end up having to completely redecorate.
Our experience with our first tenants: 3 months rent unpaid that the useless rental agency never recovered, water company claiming money from us for bills the tenants should have paid but hadn't, bridges to mend with the neighbours who accused the tenants of stealing things from their sheds and seemed to think it was our fault, and the tenants also took our lawnmower with them along with various other items that belonged to the property, including a very nice kayak that we'd given their kids permission to borrow to use on the river.
Redecorating (to cover up the transfers that they'd stuck all over our walls - stuff like "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about dancing in the rain") was the least of our worries.
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Old Oct 1st 2020, 7:20 pm
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Default Re: Ok don’t shoot the messenger ....

Originally Posted by EuroTrash View Post
Our experience with our first tenants: 3 months rent unpaid that the useless rental agency never recovered, water company claiming money from us for bills the tenants should have paid but hadn't, bridges to mend with the neighbours who accused the tenants of stealing things from their sheds and seemed to think it was our fault, and the tenants also took our lawnmower with them along with various other items that belonged to the property, including a very nice kayak that we'd given their kids permission to borrow to use on the river.
Redecorating (to cover up the transfers that they'd stuck all over our walls - stuff like "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about dancing in the rain") was the least of our worries.
nightmare 😳 the quote made me chuckle. But can’t imagine the stress 😳
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Old Oct 2nd 2020, 5:52 am
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Default Re: Ok don’t shoot the messenger ....

Originally Posted by EuroTrash View Post
Are you sure this would work?
If he is employed by a UK employer and he lives in Spain, his employer can't keep him on UK payroll and continue deducting UK NICs and UK PAYE income tax as if he were still living in the UK. If he is doing the work in Spain, his income tax payments and social security contributions have to be made to Spain. Most UK employers don't want to touch that.
Maybe you have it sorted, in which case ignore me.
He simply files double tax treaty paperwork, gets his refund, pays his Spanish taxes, no hassle to him or employer, it’s a smooth straight forward process.

Source: Myself and several colleagues living in other EU countries working for a U.K employer.

Form: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-dt-individual
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Old Oct 2nd 2020, 6:43 am
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Default Re: Ok don’t shoot the messenger ....

Originally Posted by breakfasttea View Post
He simply files double tax treaty paperwork, gets his refund, pays his Spanish taxes, no hassle to him or employer, it’s a smooth straight forward process.

Source: Myself and several colleagues living in other EU countries working for a U.K employer.

Form: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-dt-individual
Hi, in addition to "Taxes", ET's post also mentions Social Security Contributions which must be paid by the UK employer into the EU country's System if the employee stays on its payroll. There are a lot of threads in the France forum on the subject of working for a UK company while being resident in France, and I imagine that Spain can't be any different.
It goes by the name of "Rule of Bum" - where you're sitting working, there you pay your Social Security Contributions...
Your own employer must have complied with the Rules, and you and your colleagues were lucky. Your OH should ensure that his employer is aware of the financial implications of this status....
HTH
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Old Oct 2nd 2020, 7:26 am
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Default Re: Ok don’t shoot the messenger ....

Originally Posted by breakfasttea View Post
He simply files double tax treaty paperwork, gets his refund, pays his Spanish taxes, no hassle to him or employer, it’s a smooth straight forward process.

Source: Myself and several colleagues living in other EU countries working for a U.K employer.
Yes you can do that for tax, and as you say it will all come out in the wash. Not sure I would call the process of claiming the tax back "no hassle", specially bearing in mind that tax paid as from eg April 2020 would not be returned to me until some point during 2022 (submit UK tax return for year Apr 20 to Apr 21 by October 2021, processed by HMRC by Jan 2022, refund to follow in their own sweet time) - by which time I would have had one if not two Spanish tax bills to pay. But I imagine HMRC will be appreciate benefiting from a permanent loan from you.

I would not be thrilled either to have NICs deducted every month for a healthcare and social security system that since I neither live nor work in the UK I am not entitled to use, and have to pay over again for healthcare in Spain.

So yes you can do that and probably get away with it, but personally I would consider it money wasted, and it's not the correct way to do it. This is a good summary of the situation: https://www.cipd.co.uk/Community/dis...x-implications

EDIT - dmu mentioned France and breakfasttea referred to "other EU countries" so for the benefit of forum lurkers, should probably clarify that what you can probably get away with, depends which EU country you are in. Not a good idea to try this in France because France actively combats illegal working practices. I don't think it would work in Germany either because Germany has robust checks in place. Other EU states, not so much.




Last edited by EuroTrash; Oct 2nd 2020 at 7:45 am.
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Old Oct 2nd 2020, 9:17 am
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Default Re: Ok don’t shoot the messenger ....

If you want to move that badly then consider reducing the price of your house to make it sell.

If you have to wait until after the end of the year then make sure you will be able to afford to apply for residency, as a couple you'll need a provable income or cash assets well in excess of €30k pa for each visa for EACH of the 5 years it will take to acquire permanent residency. That's an initial year followed by 2x 2 years (so €30k+ then 2x €60k+). Reckon on losing up to 20% in tax per annum.

You'll also be paying for your health care forever including the full cost of all medicines.

Taking all that into account shaving a chunk off a house price to make it sell and get you here before year end could turn out to be the best decision you ever made!

BTW if intending to work in SPAIN, even for a UK employer, then after Dec 31st. you will not be able to apply for a 'non lucrative' visa but you'll have to research that aspect for yourself I'm afraid.


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Old Oct 2nd 2020, 11:27 am
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Default Re: Ok don’t shoot the messenger ....

Originally Posted by Notdunroamin View Post
If you want to move that badly then consider reducing the price of your house to make it sell.

If you have to wait until after the end of the year then make sure you will be able to afford to apply for residency, as a couple you'll need a provable income or cash assets well in excess of €30k pa for each visa for EACH of the 5 years it will take to acquire permanent residency. That's an initial year followed by 2x 2 years (so €30k+ then 2x €60k+). Reckon on losing up to 20% in tax per annum.

You'll also be paying for your health care forever including the full cost of all medicines.

Taking all that into account shaving a chunk off a house price to make it sell and get you here before year end could turn out to be the best decision you ever made!

BTW if intending to work in SPAIN, even for a UK employer, then after Dec 31st. you will not be able to apply for a 'non lucrative' visa but you'll have to research that aspect for yourself I'm afraid.
wow makes you think ! Ok trying to digest all these messages.

So am I right in saying in comparison to above scenario which would happen if we leave it till next year .... or after December in any event ... if we can start it before December it’s £16k in bank account in total ? medical health insurance free after husband is claiming state pension ? If that’s correct is that free for him or us both ? (I won’t be eligible at that point)

we have the income to allow us to come and live and we have our apartment to live in.

we definitely need to sit down and consider consequences of leaving it till after December 😳😳😳😳


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