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Non resident in Spain

Non resident in Spain

Old Feb 27th 2021, 10:51 am
  #76  
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Default Re: Non resident in Spain

My bet is Spain cashing in on overstayers with some nice fines. They never used to be that bothered about other richer countries that were never in the EU overstaying. Like Americans and Australians. I have a feeling it will be pay to stay.
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Old Feb 27th 2021, 10:56 am
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Default Re: Non resident in Spain

Originally Posted by Stingychips View Post
My bet is Spain cashing in on overstayers with some nice fines. They never used to be that bothered about other richer countries that were never in the EU overstaying. Like Americans and Australians. I have a feeling it will be pay to stay.
All the Americans and Australians visitors I've chatted to (which admittedly is not very many) have been very aware of the Schengen rules and extremely careful not to overstay. They've had their itineraries and bookings carefully worked out in advance.
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Old Feb 27th 2021, 11:23 am
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Default Re: Non resident in Spain

That link does mention that fines are alongside other things, so people may be told to leave and be fined. I doubt it will just be a fine and continue to stay?
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Old Feb 27th 2021, 11:28 am
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Default Re: Non resident in Spain

Originally Posted by missile View Post
As and when they come to attention of authorities, I expect those living under the radar, will be treated exactly the same as any other illegal immigrant.

Theres plenty of videos on youtube abount how the spanish national police treat illegal immigrants. its not nice.
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Old Feb 27th 2021, 1:51 pm
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Default Re: Non resident in Spain

Originally Posted by Stingychips View Post
My bet is Spain cashing in on overstayers with some nice fines.
That should be nice and easy to get around, then.

Anybody who overstays need only cross one of the internal Schengen borders into either Portugal or France and exit the Schengen Zone from there to avoid the punitive Spanish fines.

Originally Posted by Stingychips View Post
They never used to be that bothered about other richer countries that were never in the EU overstaying. Like Americans and Australians. I have a feeling it will be pay to stay.
They (the Schengen countries in general) have been improving and harmonising procedures on entry / exit checks for some long time now. I doubt overstaying was ever a casually-treated matter for non EU nationals but if there ever were possibilities of its being overlooked, I'd say they've shrunk to about zero now. Every Schengen member state has an obligation to enforce the rules on length of stay, regardless of the points of entry and exit.
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Old Feb 27th 2021, 2:04 pm
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Default Re: Non resident in Spain

Originally Posted by bfg69bug View Post
Theres plenty of videos on youtube abount how the spanish national police treat illegal immigrants. its not nice.
They are criminals
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Old Feb 27th 2021, 2:48 pm
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Default Re: Non resident in Spain

My experience of talking to and reading online posts by US, Canadian and Australian travellers to Europe, all prior to 2021, has been that only certain states are likely to clamp down on overstayers. Countries most often mentioned are Germany, Switzerland and the Netherlands. Other countries, especially those particularly reliant to tourism income, such as Spain, Italy, Portugal, Greece and France, tend to turn a blind eye or have a light touch. Also much depends on the impression you give to border agents. If you look young, scruffy and penniless (relatively speaking), you are much more likely to be scrutinised, as they suspect you may also be working illegally. If you look like typical, well-to-do first-world tourists, they are unlikely to start counting how many days you have spent in Schengen.
What will happen to British travellers now is anyone's guess. I would imagine light touch is most likely outcome, as officials just don't have the time to scrutinise everyone, though occasionally there may be a campaign of enforcement, just like how customs confiscated sandwiches brought over from UK and to keep overstayers and other rule breakers on their toes. Once the Brexit dust has settled, you can expect countries going back to their previous patterns, enforcing rules if it's in their national interest.
Introduction of ETIAS in 2022 may be a gamechanger, as non-EU citizens (except those with long-stay or permanent residence) are counted in and out and overstayers are easy to detect. Then it becomes a question of enforcement or turning a blind eye, or anything in between.

Last edited by Joppa; Feb 27th 2021 at 2:55 pm.
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Old Feb 27th 2021, 4:21 pm
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Default Re: Non resident in Spain

True, although if a person has stayed for over 90 days consecutive there is no need to count days because it's blindingly obvious. The official has to look at the passport and stamp it, and if today he sees an entry stamp dated earlier than 27 November (or whatever 90 days back from today is) he will probably feel he can't let it pass.

I just had a quick google to see if I could find any figures on how many fines are issued for overstaying and I couldn't, but I did spot this from RIck Steves who is an established travel writer, it's from 2015 so quite out of date but I'd have thought things would have got tighter not slacker since then.
https://community.ricksteves.com/tra...limit-exceeded
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Old Feb 27th 2021, 5:57 pm
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Default Re: Non resident in Spain

Immigration/Border Control agents are skilled at asking ambiguous questions and not divulging exactly what information they know about you and your travel history.With chip enhanced e-passports going back over ten years now,the question of physical stamps becomes less relevant.
From my own personal experience,I have come under some intense scrutiny (held for 4+hrs,had my passport held,been on a no-fly list ) all due to the fact that my name or itinerary raised a red flag.I was traveling Business Class and suitably attired.Prior to these incidents I have passed Security clearance for high security areas,had retina scans,fingerprints and criminal background checks.? Go figure......
When I tried to question the reasons for this inconvenience,I was only told that each time I passed through Immigration in future,it should get a little easier.(which it did)
I assume they were just adding information to my profile.
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Old Feb 27th 2021, 7:02 pm
  #85  
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Default Re: Non resident in Spain

Originally Posted by Xisle View Post
Immigration/Border Control agents are skilled at asking ambiguous questions and not divulging exactly what information they know about you and your travel history.With chip enhanced e-passports going back over ten years now,the question of physical stamps becomes less relevant.
From my own personal experience,I have come under some intense scrutiny (held for 4+hrs,had my passport held,been on a no-fly list ) all due to the fact that my name or itinerary raised a red flag.I was traveling Business Class and suitably attired.Prior to these incidents I have passed Security clearance for high security areas,had retina scans,fingerprints and criminal background checks.? Go figure......
When I tried to question the reasons for this inconvenience,I was only told that each time I passed through Immigration in future,it should get a little easier.(which it did)
I assume they were just adding information to my profile.
Somethings not right on your passport if your getting held for 4+ hours.
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Old Feb 27th 2021, 7:10 pm
  #86  
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Default Re: Non resident in Spain

Originally Posted by ETwenthome View Post
True, although if a person has stayed for over 90 days consecutive there is no need to count days because it's blindingly obvious. The official has to look at the passport and stamp it, and if today he sees an entry stamp dated earlier than 27 November (or whatever 90 days back from today is) he will probably feel he can't let it pass.

I just had a quick google to see if I could find any figures on how many fines are issued for overstaying and I couldn't, but I did spot this from RIck Steves who is an established travel writer, it's from 2015 so quite out of date but I'd have thought things would have got tighter not slacker since then.
https://community.ricksteves.com/tra...limit-exceeded
I ready that. Sounds like the other poster is right. Holland takes a strict approach to overstayers. Didn’t see anything about over stayers in Spain though. I agree with the other poster about Spain,France Greece and Portugal being laid back and relaxed when it comes to first world tourists(with money) overstaying. By end of March the expats without documents will be in breach of their 90 day allowance. Be very interesting to see what happens. I just can’t imagine laid back Spanish chasing off tourists. Spain where I live is full of 3rd world migrants who have obviously arrived here illegally. They don’t give a shit.
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Old Feb 27th 2021, 7:42 pm
  #87  
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Default Re: Non resident in Spain

Originally Posted by Stingychips View Post
Spain where I live is full of 3rd world migrants who have obviously arrived here illegally.
Not sure how you can tell a person is an illegal migrant by looking at them? There are also asylum seekers, and refugees. They can look pretty similar....
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Old Feb 27th 2021, 7:48 pm
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Default Re: Non resident in Spain

I doubt you'd be actively hunted down while you're in the country. I know that doesn't seem to happen in Portugal, although the occasional random traffic stop operation by police in conjunction with the borders agency often yields overstayers or other irregular migrants as well as a range of other offenders of various sorts from driving infringements to drugs and weapons. Also raids on hostess clubs.

In my opinion though, it's crossing the external Schengen border on exit that is, or will become, the problem for the overstaying casual or habitual visitor. And increasingly electronic controls will make it far easier to identify offenders regardless of the nature of their comings and goings in the very near future.
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Old Feb 27th 2021, 8:32 pm
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Default Re: Non resident in Spain

Originally Posted by ETwenthome View Post
Not sure how you can tell a person is an illegal migrant by looking at them? There are also asylum seekers, and refugees. They can look pretty similar....
pretty much all the street sellers from sub Saharan Africa come illegally. Isn’t It spain that has the boats that bring in the undocumented migrants. Man City manager had just donated 150k to one of the boats so
they can continue taking in migrants/refugees/asylum seekers or what ever you want to call them.

Last edited by Stingychips; Feb 27th 2021 at 8:35 pm.
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Old Feb 28th 2021, 8:42 am
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Default Re: Non resident in Spain

Straying perilously far from the thread topic here but seeing as that has been allowed to stand, perhaps a response to it may also be acceptable.

Originally Posted by Stingychips View Post
Isn’t It spain that has the boats that bring in the undocumented migrants.
The authorities in Spain do rescue people from vessels in difficulty in Spanish waters and take them to the nearest port, as is their obligation under international maritime law. They also (I assume) participate in joint efforts in other EU waters, for which they may provide personnel, equipment, vessels etc.

Originally Posted by Stingychips View Post
Man City manager had just donated 150k to one of the boats so
they can continue taking in migrants/refugees/asylum seekers or what ever you want to call them.
Not just, no, although it appears only now to have hit the headlines. The donation was made in 2018, to a Spanish NGO engaged in search and rescue missions in the Med, one of whose vessels was laid up for repairs for which they didn't appear to have the necessary, until Mr Guardiola stumped up with it from his own pocket. That particular NGO and its vessels have since been blocked by the Spanish government from conducting search and rescue missions but may deliver aid and supplies.

Other similar non-Spanish organisations and vessels were also operating in the region at the time, including a UK NGO, so maybe giving all the credit to "Spain" is a touch over-generous.

Mr Guardiola has also (amongst other things) donated €1m to a foundation supplying medical equipment to fight Coronavirus in his home country. An exceedingly benevolent chap in the philanthropy department, it appears.
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