New person needs some help and advise!!
Jul 8th 2009, 3:26 pm
#61
Democracy advocate
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,460
Re: New person needs some help and advise!!
Dont really get all this "dont bother even trying, it'll all be a disaster attitude".
In my part of London therre's a lot of immigrant's from Poland, and other parts of Eastern Europe, normally poor by UK standards, and contrary to popular belief, they dont even try to get council flat's or benefit's.
There's also a lot of African's etc.
The point is a, a lot of these people seem to do quite well for themselves, without the benefit of a year's worth of money etc.
So if they can do it with less advantages than the average Brit moving to Spain, why cant the British do just as well.
We're just as smart, and hard working as anyone else, and usually have the benefit of start up cash etc.
In my part of London therre's a lot of immigrant's from Poland, and other parts of Eastern Europe, normally poor by UK standards, and contrary to popular belief, they dont even try to get council flat's or benefit's.
There's also a lot of African's etc.
The point is a, a lot of these people seem to do quite well for themselves, without the benefit of a year's worth of money etc.
So if they can do it with less advantages than the average Brit moving to Spain, why cant the British do just as well.
We're just as smart, and hard working as anyone else, and usually have the benefit of start up cash etc.
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=618339
Jul 8th 2009, 4:03 pm
#62
Banned
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,081
Re: New person needs some help and advise!!
Dont really get all this "dont bother even trying, it'll all be a disaster attitude".
In my part of London therre's a lot of immigrant's from Poland, and other parts of Eastern Europe, normally poor by UK standards, and contrary to popular belief, they dont even try to get council flat's or benefit's.
There's also a lot of African's etc.
The point is a, a lot of these people seem to do quite well for themselves, without the benefit of a year's worth of money etc.
So if they can do it with less advantages than the average Brit moving to Spain, why cant the British do just as well.
We're just as smart, and hard working as anyone else, and usually have the
benefit of start up cash etc.
In my part of London therre's a lot of immigrant's from Poland, and other parts of Eastern Europe, normally poor by UK standards, and contrary to popular belief, they dont even try to get council flat's or benefit's.
There's also a lot of African's etc.
The point is a, a lot of these people seem to do quite well for themselves, without the benefit of a year's worth of money etc.
So if they can do it with less advantages than the average Brit moving to Spain, why cant the British do just as well.
We're just as smart, and hard working as anyone else, and usually have the
benefit of start up cash etc.
just like the Spanish immigrants to the UK years ago. It is a lot harder to adapt to life in a country that gives you less than you are used to, than to one that gives you that you "escaped from" because there was nothing on offer at home. If you lived in an overcrowded shack in a poor country, you would be content to live in a studio apartment in your new counry.
Also I have seen programmes about POles taking jobs for minimum wage, then claiming for the faimily at home in Poland and sending the child benefit back home. It is all legal, as long as the breadwinner stays in the UK, apparently.
And I am sure that most who are renting and working are getting housing and council tax benefit, I dont think many could afford to pay a private rent on minimum wage.
And of course they dont have a years money, they are in the UK to escape from poverty in their own county.
JLFS
Last edited by Mitzyboy; Jul 8th 2009 at 4:08 pm.
Jul 8th 2009, 4:10 pm
#63
Senior Moment
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: On the edge
Posts: 20,460
Re: New person needs some help and advise!!
In the same way a family can move to Spain, and if the "breadwinner" stays and works in the UK they can transfer Child Benefit & healthcare to Spain.
Jul 8th 2009, 5:02 pm
#64
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 129
Re: New person needs some help and advise!!
The difference is they come from poorer countries where wages and lifestyle is much lower, and therefore dont expect much.
just like the Spanish immigrants to the UK years ago. It is a lot harder to adapt to life in a country that gives you less than you are used to, than to one that gives you that you "escaped from" because there was nothing on offer at home. If you lived in an overcrowded shack in a poor country, you would be content to live in a studio apartment in your new counry.
Also I have seen programmes about POles taking jobs for minimum wage, then claiming for the faimily at home in Poland and sending the child benefit back home. It is all legal, as long as the breadwinner stays in the UK, apparently.
And I am sure that most who are renting and working are getting housing and council tax benefit, I dont think many could afford to pay a private rent on minimum wage.
And of course they dont have a years money, they are in the UK to escape from poverty in their own county.
JLFS
just like the Spanish immigrants to the UK years ago. It is a lot harder to adapt to life in a country that gives you less than you are used to, than to one that gives you that you "escaped from" because there was nothing on offer at home. If you lived in an overcrowded shack in a poor country, you would be content to live in a studio apartment in your new counry.
Also I have seen programmes about POles taking jobs for minimum wage, then claiming for the faimily at home in Poland and sending the child benefit back home. It is all legal, as long as the breadwinner stays in the UK, apparently.
And I am sure that most who are renting and working are getting housing and council tax benefit, I dont think many could afford to pay a private rent on minimum wage.
And of course they dont have a years money, they are in the UK to escape from poverty in their own county.
JLFS
With regard to the benefit's situation, have you ever been to Torrevieja ?
Largest council estate outside of the UK. Whole families on UK sourced benefit's.
Also whilst it is probably true, that some East Europeans, send child tax credit's back home, it's also true that the British media never let's the fact's get in the way of a good story, particularly the like's of the Sun & tha Mail etc !
Anyway, can I just say, that you seem to have missed the entire point of my post, which was about the advantage's British people have relative to the people discussed !
The fact is even if what you said was true, we the British would still have considerable advantage's over them when moving country.
We would have money, education, access to language courses, access to internet resources such as this forum, we wpould have knowledge of how a modern devoloped country work's.
A lot of us have property to sell, and can therefore buy a home for cash, a considerable headstart
So therefore, at the very least we are equal to a Pole, an African etc, although in my opinion we should be way ahead in the moving country stakes, and should be able to perform better !
Last edited by savateur; Jul 8th 2009 at 5:08 pm.
Jul 8th 2009, 5:41 pm
#65
Not Banned (yet)
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Madrid
Posts: 6,400
Re: New person needs some help and advise!!
Actually know quite a lot of these people, Poles , and otherwise, and hardly any of them are on minimum wage, nor do they live in studio flat's, nor did they come from an overcrowded shack. Nor do they claim benefit's of any description.
With regard to the benefit's situation, have you ever been to Torrevieja ?
Largest council estate outside of the UK. Whole families on UK sourced benefit's.
Also whilst it is probably true, that some East Europeans, send child tax credit's back home, it's also true that the British media never let's the fact's get in the way of a good story, particularly the like's of the Sun & tha Mail etc !
Anyway, can I just say, that you seem to have missed the entire point of my post, which was about the advantage's British people have relative to the people discussed !
The fact is even if what you said was true, we the British would still have considerable advantage's over them when moving country.
We would have money, education, access to language courses, access to internet resources such as this forum, we wpould have knowledge of how a modern devoloped country work's.
A lot of us have property to sell, and can therefore buy a home for cash, a considerable headstart
So therefore, at the very least we are equal to a Pole, an African etc, although in my opinion we should be way ahead in the moving country stakes, and should be able to perform better !
With regard to the benefit's situation, have you ever been to Torrevieja ?
Largest council estate outside of the UK. Whole families on UK sourced benefit's.
Also whilst it is probably true, that some East Europeans, send child tax credit's back home, it's also true that the British media never let's the fact's get in the way of a good story, particularly the like's of the Sun & tha Mail etc !
Anyway, can I just say, that you seem to have missed the entire point of my post, which was about the advantage's British people have relative to the people discussed !
The fact is even if what you said was true, we the British would still have considerable advantage's over them when moving country.
We would have money, education, access to language courses, access to internet resources such as this forum, we wpould have knowledge of how a modern devoloped country work's.
A lot of us have property to sell, and can therefore buy a home for cash, a considerable headstart
So therefore, at the very least we are equal to a Pole, an African etc, although in my opinion we should be way ahead in the moving country stakes, and should be able to perform better !
Jul 8th 2009, 6:34 pm
#66
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 129
Re: New person needs some help and advise!!
Hi - I agree to a certain extent with your post, but feel you maybe overegging the situation. For instance - having the advantages of coming from the UK. Now I may be oversimplifying, but a Spanish employer hiring brickies to work on the black, will probably consider Mexicans or Ecuadorians long before he even considers the possibility of hiring guiris. Now of course it may work in our favour for someone teaching English, or working for Accenture (or even when looking for nannies), but it's not always the case. Also (and I accept it's our fault) people from other countries know they will have to learn the language quickly to survive in Spain (if they don't already speak it). It may be the Brits' fault, but lacking the language skills means they are at a disadvantage when looking for work there. Lastly, you're assuming that everyone wanting to make a new start in Spain is a rich property-owner, which is far from the case.
Lost count of the number of people who have told me not to bother because "they all speak English anyway"
Wasnt actually saying being British is an advantage, just saying that we have as much a chance as anyone else, when becoming an immigrant in another country
Wasnt saying everyone from the UK is a rich property owner, just stated a lot of us have a property to sell, which of course helps a lot.
One disadvantage we seem to have (this is not aimed at anyone in particular), is our incredibly negative attitude
The point I'm trying to make, without much succes it seem's, is that if other people from other countries can make a success in the UK, then why cant Brit's do the same in Spain
Perhap's its that negative attitude
PS: What's a Guiri ?
Jul 8th 2009, 6:49 pm
#67
Democracy advocate
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,460
Re: New person needs some help and advise!!
Well, if you dont learn the language before moving to Spain, then it's definatly your own fault. Seems a bit stupid to me to move to a country where their language is different from yours, and not learn the language.
Lost count of the number of people who have told me not to bother because "they all speak English anyway"
Wasnt actually saying being British is an advantage, just saying that we have as much a chance as anyone else, when becoming an immigrant in another country
Wasnt saying everyone from the UK is a rich property owner, just stated a lot of us have a property to sell, which of course helps a lot.
One disadvantage we seem to have (this is not aimed at anyone in particular), is our incredibly negative attitude
The point I'm trying to make, without much succes it seem's, is that if other people from other countries can make a success in the UK, then why cant Brit's do the same in Spain
Perhap's its that negative attitude
PS: What's a Guiri ?
Lost count of the number of people who have told me not to bother because "they all speak English anyway"
Wasnt actually saying being British is an advantage, just saying that we have as much a chance as anyone else, when becoming an immigrant in another country
Wasnt saying everyone from the UK is a rich property owner, just stated a lot of us have a property to sell, which of course helps a lot.
One disadvantage we seem to have (this is not aimed at anyone in particular), is our incredibly negative attitude
The point I'm trying to make, without much succes it seem's, is that if other people from other countries can make a success in the UK, then why cant Brit's do the same in Spain
Perhap's its that negative attitude
PS: What's a Guiri ?
Jul 8th 2009, 7:09 pm
#68
Not Banned (yet)
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Madrid
Posts: 6,400
Re: New person needs some help and advise!!
Judging by the number of bankruptcies, repossessions, increasing unemployed in the UK, I wouldn't necessarily say the UK is well set-up for success.
Spanish slang for a typical Angle-saxon or northern European.
PS: What's a Guiri ?
Jul 8th 2009, 7:55 pm
#69
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: From Gandia to Budapest
Posts: 219
Re: New person needs some help and advise!!
savateur: I think one has to differentiate between pre-recession and now.
Both the UK and Spain had many opportunities and demand for cheap labour, willingly supplied by the EU's newest entrants. There have always been immigrant coming and going. But, it's hard to ignore that more traffic is returning. This reporting of this has nothing to do with being negative. Just news.
I seem to recall you were in the process of moving here to set up a pet food business or something of the sort. How goes it?
Both the UK and Spain had many opportunities and demand for cheap labour, willingly supplied by the EU's newest entrants. There have always been immigrant coming and going. But, it's hard to ignore that more traffic is returning. This reporting of this has nothing to do with being negative. Just news.
I seem to recall you were in the process of moving here to set up a pet food business or something of the sort. How goes it?
Jul 8th 2009, 9:22 pm
#70
Democracy advocate
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,460
Re: New person needs some help and advise!!
Let's not compare the UK and Spanish unemployment rates.
Jul 8th 2009, 10:19 pm
#71
Banned
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,081
Re: New person needs some help and advise!!
Actually know quite a lot of these people, Poles , and otherwise, and hardly any of them are on minimum wage, nor do they live in studio flat's, nor did they come from an overcrowded shack. Nor do they claim benefit's of any description.
With regard to the benefit's situation, have you ever been to Torrevieja ?
Largest council estate outside of the UK. Whole families on UK sourced benefit's.
Also whilst it is probably true, that some East Europeans, send child tax credit's back home, it's also true that the British media never let's the fact's get in the way of a good story, particularly the like's of the Sun & tha Mail etc !
Anyway, can I just say, that you seem to have missed the entire point of my post, which was about the advantage's British people have relative to the people discussed !
The fact is even if what you said was true, we the British would still have considerable advantage's over them when moving country.
We would have money, education, access to language courses, access to internet resources such as this forum, we wpould have knowledge of how a modern devoloped country work's.
A lot of us have property to sell, and can therefore buy a home for cash, a considerable headstart
So therefore, at the very least we are equal to a Pole, an African etc, although in my opinion we should be way ahead in the moving country stakes, and should be able to perform better !
With regard to the benefit's situation, have you ever been to Torrevieja ?
Largest council estate outside of the UK. Whole families on UK sourced benefit's.
Also whilst it is probably true, that some East Europeans, send child tax credit's back home, it's also true that the British media never let's the fact's get in the way of a good story, particularly the like's of the Sun & tha Mail etc !
Anyway, can I just say, that you seem to have missed the entire point of my post, which was about the advantage's British people have relative to the people discussed !
The fact is even if what you said was true, we the British would still have considerable advantage's over them when moving country.
We would have money, education, access to language courses, access to internet resources such as this forum, we wpould have knowledge of how a modern devoloped country work's.
A lot of us have property to sell, and can therefore buy a home for cash, a considerable headstart
So therefore, at the very least we are equal to a Pole, an African etc, although in my opinion we should be way ahead in the moving country stakes, and should be able to perform better !
We are not talking about the Brits who are well set up with cash to spare, and have an income from pensions or maybe nearing pensionable age.
We are talking about immigrants as in working and living in Spain, not retiring to Spain, which in entirely different.
Some of the Brits moving to Spain do not have cash to buy a house, some are hoping to rent a find a job, even with children it tow.
A cousin of mine has been offered a job I Asturias, as a joiner. He would have to be at the base for 8am. They would be taken to the place of work, which could be 3 hours away. They would have a 2.hour 30min hour break in the afternoon and finish about 7.30 in the evening. Add the journey time home and they would get home about 10pm They would have to pay for their own meals. All for the princely wage of 820euro a month.
The do not realise that it you dont work in Spain, you get no money, of if they do they have listened to comments like "it is better, to be skint in the sun than back in the UK". What a load of cobblers.
Do you know that the payment for unemployed over 54 years of age is about 320 a month, no matter what rent or mortgage you pay, no matter if you still have children at home. That is what you get....No free dentist for the children, sweet FA.
And the British are not classed as equal to Poles, or Africans in the jobs stakes, because most employers would not even consider a Brit would work for the pittance they pay in wages to these nationalities and South Americans.
So they employ people from poorer countries because they are more likely to work for slave wages, and be grateful.
A south American, would be happy to work for low wages, no contract and terrible conditions, if he needed to send money back to his family.
Whereas if I were offered such conditions I would feel like smacking him in the face, and tell him where to stick it.
There was a case of a Bolivian guy on the news last week, who had his arm ripped off by machinery whilst working illegally in a bakery.
He had no contract and his employer dropped him near the hospital and left him to walk the rest of the way.
He told the injured guy to tell the doctors that he had been in a car accident.
He threw the arm in the bin to get rid of the evidence. He worked 12 hours a day for 23 euros.
A pittance, you may say but for an immigrant it may not be so bad, if the average wage is only 50 zlotties or whatever a week. He would never offer a job like this to a Brit, I can assure you.
As for better education, some of these Eastern Europeans speak 3 or 4 languages and put us all to shame. And they are prepared to work their socks off for a pittance.
The whole idea of immigration when you need a job is to go to a richer country than your own, to take advantage of the higher wages and standard of living. My parents and inlaws went to the UK, because there was a huge difference then. Loads of Spanish, Italians and Portugese did the same, I dont think it entered their heads to go to Somalia or Ethiopia to work.
Brits have always been near the top of the food chain, so the countries they can emigrate to, to improve their lives are limited, Canada, Oz......
Africans can go anywhere because all European countries have a better standard of living than them, but a worse standard than the UK. Well it makes sense to me.
Regards,
JLFS
Jul 9th 2009, 8:13 am
#72
Structural Surveyor
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Sevilla/Cordoba border
Posts: 1,048
Re: New person needs some help and advise!!
What me me said.
Why? IMHO because most Brits who want to move to Spain don't have the same work ethic as immigrants who move to the UK - they move to Spain (according to the usual reasons given on this forum and others) for an "easier way of life", to "work less", to "spend more quality time with the family", to enjoy a "less stressful life" etc.
When do you ever hear the reasons given for moving to Spain to be "to get a better job", to "work hard", to be able "to earn more money", or because "the opportunities are better"???? You dont.
Plus (the other usual reason) Brits just won't bother to learn the language. Almost without exception, every Moroccan (or other foreigner) I've met here in Spain speaks Spanish better than any expat Brit living here. And then they wonder why they can't get work.
It takes a great deal of hard work, determination and effort to move to a foreign country, learn a new language and start from scratch. The majority of (working age) Brits who move to Spain don't have that work ethic - they are used to being in employment, where you receive a monthly wage, receive work-related benefits (by which I mean sick pay etc), discrimination in the workplace is controlled/illegal and there is an unemployment benefit system safety net if the worst comes to the worst.
So they find themselves scratching around for a living in Spain - a bit of bar or building work here, an occasional job there, the odd car boot/market stall. Hardly a great way to spend the rest of your working life.
When do you ever hear the reasons given for moving to Spain to be "to get a better job", to "work hard", to be able "to earn more money", or because "the opportunities are better"???? You dont.
Plus (the other usual reason) Brits just won't bother to learn the language. Almost without exception, every Moroccan (or other foreigner) I've met here in Spain speaks Spanish better than any expat Brit living here. And then they wonder why they can't get work.
It takes a great deal of hard work, determination and effort to move to a foreign country, learn a new language and start from scratch. The majority of (working age) Brits who move to Spain don't have that work ethic - they are used to being in employment, where you receive a monthly wage, receive work-related benefits (by which I mean sick pay etc), discrimination in the workplace is controlled/illegal and there is an unemployment benefit system safety net if the worst comes to the worst.
So they find themselves scratching around for a living in Spain - a bit of bar or building work here, an occasional job there, the odd car boot/market stall. Hardly a great way to spend the rest of your working life.
Jul 9th 2009, 11:31 am
#73
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 129
Re: New person needs some help and advise!!
Ok.you win .
Brits are not as smart as anyone else, were all lazy,and will inevitably fail in all we try to do.
Now I've agreed with you, no doubt there will be a torrent of argument to argue I was right in the first place !
Seem's to me there is a determination to be negative on this forum, and find an argument in everything !
Point in case, I was advised to learn Spanish, when I pointed out I was doing this, and found a Spanish club to practice with, I was then told there was no point in learning Spanish as no one speaks it anyway !
Perhaps the reason Brits dont transplant well, is the incredibly negative attitude, the ability to start a fight or argument in an empty house, and the awesome ability to whine endlessly about little things that dont even matter !
All I did was post a comment that there is no reason why a Brit should be more prone to failure than anyone else, which provoked a torrent of pedantic pointless argument about why Brit's are more prone to failure !
If I posted the contrary, no doubt an argument would have started to the contrary !
Dont expect everyone to agree with me all the time, far from it, but the overwhelming negativity is opressive on here.
There is no "balance", as is ofton claimed, if there was there would be both positive and negative, but there is no positive, just negative !
Its nothing to do with the econmic situation, it's always been the same on here, have looked back a number of years in thread age, found the same pessimism.
Has there ever been a new member, with a work idea on here, who hasnt been told "it will be a failure" ?
Name me just one.
There you have, a negative post. I await the abuse.
Forgot to add, could the mod's plse delete or close my account, thank you.
Brits are not as smart as anyone else, were all lazy,and will inevitably fail in all we try to do.
Now I've agreed with you, no doubt there will be a torrent of argument to argue I was right in the first place !
Seem's to me there is a determination to be negative on this forum, and find an argument in everything !
Point in case, I was advised to learn Spanish, when I pointed out I was doing this, and found a Spanish club to practice with, I was then told there was no point in learning Spanish as no one speaks it anyway !
Perhaps the reason Brits dont transplant well, is the incredibly negative attitude, the ability to start a fight or argument in an empty house, and the awesome ability to whine endlessly about little things that dont even matter !
All I did was post a comment that there is no reason why a Brit should be more prone to failure than anyone else, which provoked a torrent of pedantic pointless argument about why Brit's are more prone to failure !
If I posted the contrary, no doubt an argument would have started to the contrary !
Dont expect everyone to agree with me all the time, far from it, but the overwhelming negativity is opressive on here.
There is no "balance", as is ofton claimed, if there was there would be both positive and negative, but there is no positive, just negative !
Its nothing to do with the econmic situation, it's always been the same on here, have looked back a number of years in thread age, found the same pessimism.
Has there ever been a new member, with a work idea on here, who hasnt been told "it will be a failure" ?
Name me just one.
There you have, a negative post. I await the abuse.
Forgot to add, could the mod's plse delete or close my account, thank you.
Last edited by savateur; Jul 9th 2009 at 11:48 am.
Jul 9th 2009, 11:55 am
#74
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Valencia
Posts: 1,249
Re: New person needs some help and advise!!
I agree with you.
Thats why i started a thread asking if the expats are really happy in Spain.
Checkk the thread - its quite positive and refreshing to read after all the negging on the others.
Yes, brits are whiners and im fed up with it too.
Throw caution to the wind and be happy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thats why i started a thread asking if the expats are really happy in Spain.
Checkk the thread - its quite positive and refreshing to read after all the negging on the others.
Yes, brits are whiners and im fed up with it too.
Throw caution to the wind and be happy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
