New pension age for women, is it fair?
Jul 3rd 2011, 3:51 pm
#91
squeaky clean
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Spain 4th feb 08 - October 11, now flits batck and forth from sunny Worthing
Posts: 1,576
Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?
A very noble theory, but totally unworkable, as you can see with the NHSand benefits
People are not treated eaually, not when things like social security is needed, how could it be implemented even if that was decided it was the way to go.
Some folks will always look after themselves, others will always be in the que for hand outs.
And there is a great difference of how the handouts are dealt with.
my OH knows 2 people who have not worked for years about 10.
One lives in a flat that costs about 55 quid a week rent from a housing association, paid for by housing benefit.
The other lives in a nice little house that cost about 95 quid a week rent. 40 quid a week more.
over the 10 years or so that they have been claiming one has been living in a better place, is happier, but is "receiving" about 2k (which amounts to 20k more in 10yrs) a year more than the other person, when they are both in the same boat, ie single and living off the taxpayer.
I they live for the next 20 years in the same place one will have over the rental period one claimant will have had about 80k more in "handouts than the other, and had a better quality of live living in nicer surroundings.
Is that fair? I honestly dont know
Is there a better way? I dont know.
Some will say I am off topic but..
I am just trying to show the difficulty of treating everyone the same.........it is easy to say, but how would it be done?
These are the problems that face the "elected".
People are not treated eaually, not when things like social security is needed, how could it be implemented even if that was decided it was the way to go.
Some folks will always look after themselves, others will always be in the que for hand outs.
And there is a great difference of how the handouts are dealt with.
my OH knows 2 people who have not worked for years about 10.
One lives in a flat that costs about 55 quid a week rent from a housing association, paid for by housing benefit.
The other lives in a nice little house that cost about 95 quid a week rent. 40 quid a week more.
over the 10 years or so that they have been claiming one has been living in a better place, is happier, but is "receiving" about 2k (which amounts to 20k more in 10yrs) a year more than the other person, when they are both in the same boat, ie single and living off the taxpayer.
I they live for the next 20 years in the same place one will have over the rental period one claimant will have had about 80k more in "handouts than the other, and had a better quality of live living in nicer surroundings.
Is that fair? I honestly dont know
Is there a better way? I dont know.
Some will say I am off topic but..
I am just trying to show the difficulty of treating everyone the same.........it is easy to say, but how would it be done?
These are the problems that face the "elected".
Jo xxx
Jul 3rd 2011, 4:23 pm
#94
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?
Jul 3rd 2011, 8:09 pm
#95
FreeThinker
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: the moors and levels
Posts: 9,702
Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?
I'm busy preparing for my demise. I am currently drinking too much (much too much) on a regular basis. At some point I'm going to be told that if I don't stop drinking I'll die. That will give me some options. I've just got to get the timing right - I'm only 55 and I don't want to have to stop drinking yet.
Jul 3rd 2011, 8:32 pm
#96
squeaky clean
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Spain 4th feb 08 - October 11, now flits batck and forth from sunny Worthing
Posts: 1,576
Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?
I'm busy preparing for my demise. I am currently drinking too much (much too much) on a regular basis. At some point I'm going to be told that if I don't stop drinking I'll die. That will give me some options. I've just got to get the timing right - I'm only 55 and I don't want to have to stop drinking yet.
Jo xxx
Jul 3rd 2011, 9:04 pm
#97
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Alhaurin el Grande
Posts: 582
Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?
I've still got 20yrs to go but planning heavily for my retirement now. I will be absolutely gutted if I die before 60 or require long term care & can't enjoy the fruit of my labour. Especially as all the money I currently invest could be put to very good use right now.
Jul 4th 2011, 8:15 am
#98
FreeThinker
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: the moors and levels
Posts: 9,702
Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?
TBH, I dont wanna hang around getting too old so I have to go into a nursing home, whether they sell my house or not!!! I cant think of anything worse than the worry and humiliation of needing to be looked after, being incontinent, unwell, in pain, no future.... Maybe thats the answer. "go" before I need to sell the house........... then everyones happy!
Jo xxx
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Jul 4th 2011, 9:02 am
#99
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: May 2009
Location: Alicante province
Posts: 5,753
Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?
I have personal experience of this. Two who are very dear to me are currently in a (very nice) care home, both incontinent and with other health problems. One desperately unhappy, the other would be if it wasn't for the advanced dementia. I will not let myself get to the state of needing my arse wiped 5 times a day by a teenager and spending the rest of the day gazing out of the window at the car park.
He suffered a horrible, last year with an uncaring carer wiping his arse and spoon feeding him, and emptying his bank account along the way. They sold his medals on ebay.
Jul 4th 2011, 9:05 am
#100
squeaky clean
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Spain 4th feb 08 - October 11, now flits batck and forth from sunny Worthing
Posts: 1,576
Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?
I have personal experience of this. Two who are very dear to me are currently in a (very nice) care home, both incontinent and with other health problems. One desperately unhappy, the other would be if it wasn't for the advanced dementia. I will not let myself get to the state of needing my arse wiped 5 times a day by a teenager and spending the rest of the day gazing out of the window at the car park.
Find me someone who actually wants to live til all they have left is a pulse! It seems to me its only relatives who cant let go and the church who condone this sort of thing
Jo xxx
Jul 4th 2011, 9:20 am
#101
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?
See the film Logan's Run.......
It depicts a dystopian future society in which population and the consumption of resources are managed and maintained in equilibrium by the simple expediency of killing everyone who reaches the age of thirty, preventing overpopulation.
It depicts a dystopian future society in which population and the consumption of resources are managed and maintained in equilibrium by the simple expediency of killing everyone who reaches the age of thirty, preventing overpopulation.
Jul 5th 2011, 6:26 am
#102
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Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Aracena area Huelva Spain
Posts: 1,631
Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?
not sure which poster I agree and disagree with most ! !
surely we have been told for decades to save, save, save for our retirement. Some of us have, with varying success against great odds.
Our pension plans have been knocked sideways by redundancy, by sky high charges from the people we entrusted the money to, by government taxation, by unscrupulous (but listed as approved) financial advisers, falling in value of our property assets, fluctuating currency rates - all of which have been circling like a pack of sharks smelling blood.
What anyone has in savings (house, cash, gold bars) should not have any reflection on the care they receive from the state. All should be treated equally. If that person wants to pay for the hotel instead of the B&B then that should be their right – but they should still receive the B&B value and just pay for the upgrade. The state should not be entitled to take back all the savings to pay for what has already been paid for in National Insurance and Taxation.
Conversely, why allow those who have not saved over the years to get care in later life, if they have ****** it up against a wall then they should have to rely on their family to look after them and provide or buy their care.
The current system of “stealing” people’s savings and also allowing annexation of past donations to relatives is nothing short of legalised theft.
Rant over, back to sleep
surely we have been told for decades to save, save, save for our retirement. Some of us have, with varying success against great odds.
Our pension plans have been knocked sideways by redundancy, by sky high charges from the people we entrusted the money to, by government taxation, by unscrupulous (but listed as approved) financial advisers, falling in value of our property assets, fluctuating currency rates - all of which have been circling like a pack of sharks smelling blood.
What anyone has in savings (house, cash, gold bars) should not have any reflection on the care they receive from the state. All should be treated equally. If that person wants to pay for the hotel instead of the B&B then that should be their right – but they should still receive the B&B value and just pay for the upgrade. The state should not be entitled to take back all the savings to pay for what has already been paid for in National Insurance and Taxation.
Conversely, why allow those who have not saved over the years to get care in later life, if they have ****** it up against a wall then they should have to rely on their family to look after them and provide or buy their care.
The current system of “stealing” people’s savings and also allowing annexation of past donations to relatives is nothing short of legalised theft.
Rant over, back to sleep
Some people can't afford to save. I haven't been able to for example. Also if most people in your family tend to die between 40 and 65 ish, it doesn't give you much incentive to plan for an old age. If you pay your taxes and NI. you should receive basic care in your old age. I'm one who believes the system here for paying Seguridad social is more honest and sustainable than NI in England... Even though it's painful every month.
I agree totally with your "basic B&B" metaphor. That's the fair way to go. Then there's no such thing as a cap on costs. Let the rich decide their own level of extra expense for the luxuries. Let the poor live a dignified life.
Jul 5th 2011, 7:00 am
#103
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?
agreed with just one proviso.
Some people can't afford to save. I haven't been able to for example. Also if most people in your family tend to die between 40 and 65 ish, it doesn't give you much incentive to plan for an old age. If you pay your taxes and NI. you should receive basic care in your old age. I'm one who believes the system here for paying Seguridad social is more honest and sustainable than NI in England... Even though it's painful every month.
I agree totally with your "basic B&B" metaphor. That's the fair way to go. Then there's no such thing as a cap on costs. Let the rich decide their own level of extra expense for the luxuries. Let the poor live a dignified life.
Some people can't afford to save. I haven't been able to for example. Also if most people in your family tend to die between 40 and 65 ish, it doesn't give you much incentive to plan for an old age. If you pay your taxes and NI. you should receive basic care in your old age. I'm one who believes the system here for paying Seguridad social is more honest and sustainable than NI in England... Even though it's painful every month.
I agree totally with your "basic B&B" metaphor. That's the fair way to go. Then there's no such thing as a cap on costs. Let the rich decide their own level of extra expense for the luxuries. Let the poor live a dignified life.
The UK has generated a number of vultures - at both ends of the financial spectrum. Its those in the middle who get squeezed and when they need help suddenly find it isnt there. In fact never was.
Jul 5th 2011, 7:31 am
#104
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,368
Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?
Yes, it's one thing saying people should plan for retirement, squirrel away money, either in savings or property, but it's a fact many simply aren't able to do it. And given the current economic climate, it's set to get a whole lot worse. It's one of the reasons why there has been so much ill feeling towards the public sector pensions, people are paying through their taxes towards pensions that will still be some of the best available, whilst not being able to afford a pension for themselves.
Jul 5th 2011, 8:17 am
#105
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?
Yes, it's one thing saying people should plan for retirement, squirrel away money, either in savings or property, but it's a fact many simply aren't able to do it. And given the current economic climate, it's set to get a whole lot worse. It's one of the reasons why there has been so much ill feeling towards the public sector pensions, people are paying through their taxes towards pensions that will still be some of the best available, whilst not being able to afford a pension for themselves.
'It's the rich what gets the pleasure, it's the poor what gets the blame.'