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New pension age for women, is it fair?

New pension age for women, is it fair?

Old Jul 3rd 2011, 1:50 pm
  #76  
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Default Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?

Originally Posted by Domino
not sure which poster I agree and disagree with most ! !

surely we have been told for decades to save, save, save for our retirement. Some of us have, with varying success against great odds.
Our pension plans have been knocked sideways by redundancy, by sky high charges from the people we entrusted the money to, by government taxation, by unscrupulous (but listed as approved) financial advisers, falling in value of our property assets, fluctuating currency rates - all of which have been circling like a pack of sharks smelling blood.

What anyone has in savings (house, cash, gold bars) should not have any reflection on the care they receive from the state. All should be treated equally. If that person wants to pay for the hotel instead of the B&B then that should be their right – but they should still receive the B&B value and just pay for the upgrade. The state should not be entitled to take back all the savings to pay for what has already been paid for in National Insurance and Taxation.

Conversely, why allow those who have not saved over the years to get care in later life, if they have ****** it up against a wall then they should have to rely on their family to look after them and provide or buy their care.

The current system of “stealing” people’s savings and also allowing annexation of past donations to relatives is nothing short of legalised theft.

Rant over, back to sleep
A very noble theory, but totally unworkable, as you can see with the NHSand benefits

People are not treated eaually, not when things like social security is needed, how could it be implemented even if that was decided it was the way to go.

Some folks will always look after themselves, others will always be in the que for hand outs.

And there is a great difference of how the handouts are dealt with.

my OH knows 2 people who have not worked for years about 10.

One lives in a flat that costs about 55 quid a week rent from a housing association, paid for by housing benefit.

The other lives in a nice little house that cost about 95 quid a week rent. 40 quid a week more.

over the 10 years or so that they have been claiming one has been living in a better place, is happier, but is "receiving" about 2k (which amounts to 20k more in 10yrs) a year more than the other person, when they are both in the same boat, ie single and living off the taxpayer.


I they live for the next 20 years in the same place one will have over the rental period one claimant will have had about 80k more in "handouts than the other, and had a better quality of live living in nicer surroundings.

Is that fair? I honestly dont know

Is there a better way? I dont know.
Some will say I am off topic but..

I am just trying to show the difficulty of treating everyone the same.........it is easy to say, but how would it be done?

These are the problems that face the "elected".
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Old Jul 3rd 2011, 2:05 pm
  #77  
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Default Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?

Originally Posted by JLFS


I sort of expected an answer like that from you.....
Be honest, which would you rather endure?

1. A good home in which you sit there bored to bits waiting to die.

2. A bad home, where you get abused, ignored in addition.

3 A massive OD of Heroin to speed you comfortably out of this vale of tears.
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Old Jul 3rd 2011, 2:13 pm
  #78  
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Default Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?

I agree, although I am not sure I would think the same when I get to that stage
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Old Jul 3rd 2011, 2:14 pm
  #79  
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Default Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?

Originally Posted by bil
Be honest, which would you rather endure?

1. A good home in which you sit there bored to bits waiting to die.

2. A bad home, where you get abused, ignored in addition.

3 A massive OD of Heroin to speed you comfortably out of this vale of tears.
I get what you are saying but it is not a question of preference, well, it is when we are on a forum, but in the real world, you will not be given a massive OD of heroin just coz you are bored to bits.

It dont work like that, nor will it be so easy for your little ol missus to get you a shotgun/pistol and the sundries involved to be able to blow your bairns out.

I have known may say that they would rather end it quickly if they were ever in that state, some have been, and still are in that state, some dead, some still alive, but not one of them has died from anything other than natural
causes.

I wonder why that is? Coz they were so adamant......
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Old Jul 3rd 2011, 2:24 pm
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Default Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?

Originally Posted by JLFS
A very noble theory, but totally unworkable, as you can see with the NHSand benefits

People are not treated eaually, not when things like social security is needed, how could it be implemented even if that was decided it was the way to go.

Some folks will always look after themselves, others will always be in the que for hand outs.

And there is a great difference of how the handouts are dealt with.

my OH knows 2 people who have not worked for years about 10.

One lives in a flat that costs about 55 quid a week rent from a housing association, paid for by housing benefit.

The other lives in a nice little house that cost about 95 quid a week rent. 40 quid a week more.

over the 10 years or so that they have been claiming one has been living in a better place, is happier, but is "receiving" about 2k (which amounts to 20k more in 10yrs) a year more than the other person, when they are both in the same boat, ie single and living off the taxpayer.


I they live for the next 20 years in the same place one will have over the rental period one claimant will have had about 80k more in "handouts than the other, and had a better quality of live living in nicer surroundings.

Is that fair? I honestly dont know

Is there a better way? I dont know.
Some will say I am off topic but..

I am just trying to show the difficulty of treating everyone the same.........it is easy to say, but how would it be done?

These are the problems that face the "elected".
Oh don't get me wrong, I could probably provide you with loads of similar evidence of discrepancies in "the system" - it is, currently, the way society does what it can for its people - but it doesn't mean it is right. And as in your instance, if they had savings of up to (IIRC) £16,000 they wouldn't\couldn't do anything about it. However, if both had to enter a home on the same day then they would revert to equal treatment.
The iniquity is that in my earlier point there is no equal treatment unless the one who has scrimped and saved is brought down to the lower level of the spendthrift.

to paraphrase "All men are equal, but some men are more equal than others",

however, even the basic equality of Communism has been found to not work under both Soviet and Chinese interpretations. Probably the Cuban model is the closest but even that is flawed.
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Old Jul 3rd 2011, 2:26 pm
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Default Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?

Originally Posted by bil
Be honest, which would you rather endure?

1. A good home in which you sit there bored to bits waiting to die.

2. A bad home, where you get abused, ignored in addition.

3 A massive OD of Heroin to speed you comfortably out of this vale of tears.
don't know about Spain but the UK takes a very dim view of {3} unless self administered, even when it is carried out in Switzerland.
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Old Jul 3rd 2011, 2:32 pm
  #82  
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Default Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?

Originally Posted by JLFS
I get what you are saying but it is not a question of preference, well, it is when we are on a forum, but in the real world, you will not be given a massive OD of heroin just coz you are bored to bits.

It dont work like that, nor will it be so easy for your little ol missus to get you a shotgun/pistol and the sundries involved to be able to blow your bairns out.

I have known may say that they would rather end it quickly if they were ever in that state, some have been, and still are in that state, some dead, some still alive, but not one of them has died from anything other than natural
causes.

I wonder why that is? Coz they were so adamant......
Purely and simply because by the time they wanted to go, the choice had passed from them, along with ability.
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Old Jul 3rd 2011, 2:33 pm
  #83  
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Default Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?

Originally Posted by Domino
don't know about Spain but the UK takes a very dim view of {3} unless self administered, even when it is carried out in Switzerland.
Yeah, god forbid those of us who want to go early rather than be crucified on someone else's morality, should suffer even one day less, eh?
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Old Jul 3rd 2011, 2:37 pm
  #84  
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Default Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?

Originally Posted by Domino
Oh don't get me wrong, I could probably provide you with loads of similar evidence of discrepancies in "the system" - it is, currently, the way society does what it can for its people - but it doesn't mean it is right. And as in your instance, if they had savings of up to (IIRC) £16,000 they wouldn't\couldn't do anything about it. However, if both had to enter a home on the same day then they would revert to equal treatment.
The iniquity is that in my earlier point there is no equal treatment unless the one who has scrimped and saved is brought down to the lower level of the spendthrift.

to paraphrase "All men are equal, but some men are more equal than others",

however, even the basic equality of Communism has been found to not work under both Soviet and Chinese interpretations. Probably the Cuban model is the closest but even that is flawed.

A good post.

I have not solution,(not that I am expected to have one)

But what is boils down to as far as my own and wifes possible care in the future, is:

If we want to have better than the "get what you are given" state run homes, of having the choice of a better one using our own money, I would rather have the latter.

The only way to look at old age should be, as an extention of the life you have now, have what you can afford, dont just exist so that you can pass it on to children, grandchildren etc.

If that includes paying for a better class of care home, then so be it.

I am not going to downgrade now, in the kind of car I drive, holidays, food, clothing, etc, so that my kids can have more, so why should I downgrade for the last leg. If I am sitting on a property that can help me live better.
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Old Jul 3rd 2011, 2:40 pm
  #85  
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Default Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?

Originally Posted by bil
Purely and simply because by the time they wanted to go, the choice had passed from them, along with ability.
Or could it have been al lbravado and when the time came they did not have the co-jones.

That seems more likely.
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Old Jul 3rd 2011, 3:05 pm
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Default Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?

Originally Posted by agoreira
I imagine once you have been on a few world cruises etc even that becomes a bit boring, repetitive. My BIL used to travel a lot to Japan and the States with his job, and I thought it all sounded great, but after several trips, staying alone in hotels he got to hate it
I think this points back to my earlier point that Brits don't know anything else other than work. Staying in hotels is a curse, I've spent half my life doing it so certainly wouldn't do that as a lottery winner & yeah once you've done a couple of cruises big deal.

Can you think of nothing you enjoy doing? I love sport & would be on the water every day if money allowed. Then there are the world's major sporting events, a month in Brazil for the next world cup, F1 every 2 weeks in some far flung country. Do you not dream of exploring Africa, Alaska or Australia?

The only work you would ever catch me doing again is as a football club chairman.
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Old Jul 3rd 2011, 3:31 pm
  #87  
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Default Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?

Originally Posted by Domino
not sure which poster I agree and disagree with most ! !

surely we have been told for decades to save, save, save for our retirement. Some of us have, with varying success against great odds.
Our pension plans have been knocked sideways by redundancy, by sky high charges from the people we entrusted the money to, by government taxation, by unscrupulous (but listed as approved) financial advisers, falling in value of our property assets, fluctuating currency rates - all of which have been circling like a pack of sharks smelling blood.

What anyone has in savings (house, cash, gold bars) should not have any reflection on the care they receive from the state. All should be treated equally. If that person wants to pay for the hotel instead of the B&B then that should be their right – but they should still receive the B&B value and just pay for the upgrade. The state should not be entitled to take back all the savings to pay for what has already been paid for in National Insurance and Taxation.

Conversely, why allow those who have not saved over the years to get care in later life, if they have ****** it up against a wall then they should have to rely on their family to look after them and provide or buy their care.

The current system of “stealing” people’s savings and also allowing annexation of past donations to relatives is nothing short of legalised theft.

Rant over, back to sleep
to
We save for our old age, not to give out a big inheritance. To be able to provide for ourselves adequately to the best standard we can afford, not to die and leave it to our kids or to have the best plot and biggest head stone in the cemetery.
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Old Jul 3rd 2011, 3:36 pm
  #88  
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Default Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?

Originally Posted by JLFS
A good post.

I have not solution,(not that I am expected to have one)

But what is boils down to as far as my own and wifes possible care in the future, is:

If we want to have better than the "get what you are given" state run homes, of having the choice of a better one using our own money, I would rather have the latter.

The only way to look at old age should be, as an extention of the life you have now, have what you can afford, dont just exist so that you can pass it on to children, grandchildren etc.

If that includes paying for a better class of care home, then so be it.

I am not going to downgrade now, in the kind of car I drive, holidays, food, clothing, etc, so that my kids can have more, so why should I downgrade for the last leg. If I am sitting on a property that can help me live better.
I totally agree and I'll bet your children do too! In fact I dont think I'd think very highly of any kids who would prefer their parents to live in a state run nursing home so that they can inherit more!

Jo xxx
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Old Jul 3rd 2011, 3:45 pm
  #89  
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Default Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?

The ideal is to have 24 hour care in your own home. Probably wouldn't cost much more than a swish care home.
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Old Jul 3rd 2011, 3:49 pm
  #90  
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Default Re: New pension age for women, is it fair?

Originally Posted by jackytoo
The ideal is to have 24 hour care in your own home. Probably wouldn't cost much more than a swish care home.
Not sure I'd fancy that - most peoples homes arent really designed for that. However, you coul take out one of those equity release things so that you can pay for any conversions and for a bit of extra nursing if necessary


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