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New options with Irish passport?

New options with Irish passport?

Old Mar 24th 2021, 4:11 pm
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Default New options with Irish passport?

My British buddy, resident in Spain for years, has now legitimately received his Irish passport (Irish grandad) - so on one hand he can apply for TIE (not mandatory I know) via his British entitlement or 'opt out' and claim his EU rights via Irish passport.

We were discussing this and realised it is a new situation and began to wonder what the best course of action is - is/has anyone else been in the situation and what did you do?

I assume you cannot be in the Spanish system (although understand it's perfectly OK to hold both passports) as a Brit (non-EU, 3rd country) and also be EU Irish...



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Old Mar 24th 2021, 4:22 pm
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Default Re: New options with Irish passport?

Lucky man. I would have thought the easiest option for him is to claim freedom of movement as an Irish citizen
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Old Mar 24th 2021, 4:40 pm
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Default Re: New options with Irish passport?

I guess he could renew his green certificate/card using modelo EX18, he would have to tick "Por cambio de Documento de Identidad/Pasaporte" in the "MODIFICACIÓN" section and bring his Irish passport and be ready to show his British passport if they ask for it. Maybe if he calls the police station or Extranjería they could confirm that is the procedure.

If he worked for any period of time in the UK then it wouldn't be a bad idea to check if continuing his residency as an EU citizen affects his rights to draw a UK pension while resident in Spain.

Also it's probably best to book an appointment before the 30th of March if Spain believes he's just a British citizen (thinking of that Schengen 90 day cut-off period).
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Old Mar 24th 2021, 5:11 pm
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Default Re: New options with Irish passport?

Originally Posted by DLC
I guess he could renew his green certificate/card using modelo EX18, he would have to tick "Por cambio de Documento de Identidad/Pasaporte" in the "MODIFICACIÓN" section and bring his Irish passport and be ready to show his British passport if they ask for it. Maybe if he calls the police station or Extranjería they could confirm that is the procedure.

If he worked for any period of time in the UK then it wouldn't be a bad idea to check if continuing his residency as an EU citizen affects his rights to draw a UK pension while resident in Spain.

Also it's probably best to book an appointment before the 30th of March if Spain believes he's just a British citizen (thinking of that Schengen 90 day cut-off period).
Why should being an EU citizen affect his rights to a UK pension?
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Old Mar 24th 2021, 5:34 pm
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Default Re: New options with Irish passport?

Originally Posted by missile
Lucky man. I would have thought the easiest option for him is to claim freedom of movement as an Irish citizen
I am not clear. If you have a British passport, but you are registered in Spain as a resident, can you not travel around the EU as much as you like (90 out of 183 day limit does not apply?)
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Old Mar 24th 2021, 5:55 pm
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Default Re: New options with Irish passport?

What is it you believe an Irish passport legally entitles him to over and above his existing residency?
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Old Mar 24th 2021, 6:07 pm
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Default Re: New options with Irish passport?

Originally Posted by Mustard
Why should being an EU citizen affect his rights to a UK pension?
Because under the Withdrawal Agreement there is social security coordination.
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Old Mar 24th 2021, 7:37 pm
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Default Re: New options with Irish passport?

Originally Posted by DLC
Because under the Withdrawal Agreement there is social security coordination.
There has been Social Security Coordination for years. I can't see anything in that document which suggests that EU citizens who are entitled to a UK pension will no longer receive it if they are non-resident in UK. Or perhaps I've misunderstood the point you are making.
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Old Mar 24th 2021, 7:37 pm
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Default Re: New options with Irish passport?

Originally Posted by agree_to_disagree
I am not clear. If you have a British passport, but you are registered in Spain as a resident, can you not travel around the EU as much as you like (90 out of 183 day limit does not apply?)
Nope.

Reader question: Can Britons living in EU spend more than 90 days in another Schengen country?

If you get a paywall message you'll have to get round it in the usual way (clear cookies or browse in private browsing mode or turn on reader mode).
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Old Mar 24th 2021, 7:41 pm
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Default Re: New options with Irish passport?

Originally Posted by Mustard
There has been Social Security Coordination for years. I can't see anything in that document which suggests that EU citizens who are entitled to a UK pension will no longer receive it if they are non-resident in UK. Or perhaps I've misunderstood the point you are making.
It says they're existing EU rules and it says "social security contributions that you have paid in different EU countries can be used to help meet the entitlement conditions for certain benefits and state pensions".

I'm not 100% sure, but it looks like something that should be looked into, shouldn't it? If e.g. you spent half your working life in the UK and the other half in Spain.
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Old Mar 24th 2021, 8:56 pm
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Default Re: New options with Irish passport?

Originally Posted by DLC
It says they're existing EU rules and it says "social security contributions that you have paid in different EU countries can be used to help meet the entitlement conditions for certain benefits and state pensions".

I'm not 100% sure, but it looks like something that should be looked into, shouldn't it? If e.g. you spent half your working life in the UK and the other half in Spain.
If you've spent half your working life in Spain and half in UK then you receive two separate pensions. In each case depending on the years you have contributed. In theory, the country you live in at the time of your retirement manages the process.

If you have a UK pension then you will receive it no matter which country you live in, although you may not receive the annual increase. Under the WA, UK pensioners in the EU will continue to receive the annual increase. A UK pensioner can be a UK citizen, or an EU citizen who has worked and built up a contribution record in the UK.
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Old Mar 24th 2021, 9:13 pm
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Default Re: New options with Irish passport?

So if you are a former UK resident, now resident in Spain and now have an Irish passport then:
  1. No time limit on how long you can stay in EU.
  2. If you continue to live here until you retire, Spain will organise your pension.
  3. "Social security contributions that you have paid in different EU countries can be used to help meet the entitlement conditions for certain benefits and state pensions"
Not sure exactly what 3 means...

What does "entitlement conditions for certain benefits" mean?

I assume that we are taking about UK and Spanish state pensions. If you receive both State Pensions, are either means tested?



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Old Mar 24th 2021, 9:29 pm
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Default Re: New options with Irish passport?

Originally Posted by agree_to_disagree
So if you are a former UK resident, now resident in Spain and now have an Irish passport then:
  1. No time limit on how long you can stay in EU.
  2. If you continue to live here until you retire, Spain will organise your pension.
  3. "Social security contributions that you have paid in different EU countries can be used to help meet the entitlement conditions for certain benefits and state pensions"
Not sure exactly what 3 means...

What does "entitlement conditions for certain benefits" mean?

I assume that we are taking about UK and Spanish state pensions. If you receive both State Pensions, are either means tested?
Spain will 'manage' the pension application process which means notifying the relevant countries. So, if you are living in Spain at retirement age, they will contact the UK on your behalf. But, the pensions are separate.

I suppose entitlement conditions means that it will be based on contributions

I don't believe that any state pensions are means tested.
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Old Mar 24th 2021, 11:09 pm
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Default Re: New options with Irish passport?

Originally Posted by DLC
I guess he could renew his green certificate/card using modelo EX18, he would have to tick "Por cambio de Documento de Identidad/Pasaporte" in the "MODIFICACIÓN" section and bring his Irish passport and be ready to show his British passport if they ask for it. Maybe if he calls the police station or Extranjería they could confirm that is the procedure.

If he worked for any period of time in the UK then it wouldn't be a bad idea to check if continuing his residency as an EU citizen affects his rights to draw a UK pension while resident in Spain.

Also it's probably best to book an appointment before the 30th of March if Spain believes he's just a British citizen (thinking of that Schengen 90 day cut-off period).
I'm a Dutch citizen but living, working & paying UK tax in the UK since 2003 and having a UK pension when the time comes what I can claim anywhere on the planet including Spain...
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Old Mar 25th 2021, 8:22 am
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Default Re: New options with Irish passport?

Thanks for a lot of interesting contributions - in this case, he already has been drawing his UK state pension for a few years. So our discussion centred around establishing EU status in Spain as against British (ok he has the accumulated rights under Brexit deal due to his years of legal residence here) and whether to apply for TIE or not - this would for him now seem unnecessary.

Interesting situation no? I can't believe he is the only one - any comments from people in the same position.
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