Lynn R

Just noticed this article - protesting about new measures in Andalucia requiring details of transactions affecting bank accounts of deceased people for up to one year before the date of death (obviously to prevent funds being withdrawn to reduce the amount of IHT payable).


http://www.diariosur.es/v/20130926/m...-20130926.html

missile

Ah well, big brother is indeed watching.

me me

It would be laughable is it was not so disgusting.

I my OH has just spoken to a widower relative who is over 80, he has been drawing a little bit money out of his account for quite a while, and sharing it amongst his grandchildren, as well as putting some aside for "whenever".

Obviously thinking that while he is alive he should have the right to "treat" his nearest and dearest, but now even that is wrong.

So now he intends stepping up his "withdrawls" (he still has quite a bit still put by) and has decided he will spread the word around the desguace (he still goes there to dances) that he is hooked on "putas".

That way his cash spending can be accounted for, and his OAP friends will vouch for the fact that he pays for female company. if Hacienda care to ask them or investigate his spending habits

Also my OH pointed out that at his age he will become quite a legend.

Neptuno

Why is it a crime to spend your own hard earned savings in the manner you wish?

Fred James

You can spend it on whatever you like but you can't give it away as there is a tax on gifts which is the same as IHT.

Unlike the UK where you can give it all away so long as you survive another 7 years, in Spain a gift is taxable immediately.

There are some allowances and exceptions but these are very different from region to region.

Keep it all in a safe or under the bed - they can't get you then! It's not as if the banks will pay any sensible interest on it.

me me

There is a good saying in Spanish, which translates to " he who made the law, made the loophole".

There are things that cannot be taxed I suppose.

Eg a holiday.

What it the older person paid for the whole family to accompany them on a luxury holiday, or just paid for the famly to go on holiday?

Surely even if the bank account is looked into after death,as no money was inherited surely it cannot be taxed in the way inheritig cash would.

A lot of families go on holiday anyway, and instead of the "heirs" paying for it, and they could pay granny back in cash if they so wished.

OK a bit of a swerve, but surely not so bad in the grand scale of things.

Fred James

I imagine Hacienda would treat a holiday for the family paid for by the deceased as a gift.

If you had bought the tickets for them and given them the tickets clearly that is a gift.

Hacienda will always take the interpretation that suits them.

me me

If that isthe case(which we don`t know) then it is a sad state of affairs.

A lot of old people cannot or don´t want to travel alone, and it would be tragic if they could not pay for someone to help and acompany them, because the recipient would be taxed as though they had inherited cash.

So the theory that people can spend their own money how the wish while still alive, is a load of bunkum.

No wonder the black economy rules, and no wonder people will do whatever they can to pay as little as possible.

scampicat

I agree, Andalucia is very good at making rules that shoot themselves in the foot.

Lynn R

In the past, I've read (on the forum and elsewhere) advice to expats saying that in the event of a death, money should be withdrawn from the deceased's bank account, or a joint account if applicable, before the bank is notified of the death.

In light of this new measure, should people now avoid doing this as it might render them liable to accusations of IHT fraud if details of transactions on the account are supplied and there is evidence of a large sum being withdrawn?

billgates

Maybe people should just ask themselves whether they would prefer the money to be in their own hands first with the govt then having to request it back, or let the govt take it first and then having to claim it back from the govt.

I know which one I'd prefer.

Vera952

Hahaha! Yes..that's so true, but after living in Andalucia for 13 years the Junta always ends up trumps either way! Laws and regulations are changed at whim sometimes without any notifications......if any, they are always surrounded by confusion and jargon that even the Gestorias are unable to explain! The good old Spanish 'shrug' is the only explanation! LOL!

me me

Good point,I know which situation I would prefer to be in too.

Domino

nice to know he still get an "old banger" at his age, bet he is guaranteed to always get a seat

frigilianafreddy

Is there any news on how the eu courts are progressing the case against Spain for discriminatory treatment of non residents vis a vis this pernicious tax?

I assume, as with CGT, that the situation will be corrected some time in the next 2 years and non res will be treated the same as residents - which should help quite a few folks.