New approach by pickpockets?
 

I was targetted today by a couple of men as I was getting onto a bus at Carrefour at Finestrat. There was a bit of a hold up at the beginning of the queue as someone (nothing to do with the pickpockets) was using a 20€ note to pay his 2.50€ fare. I felt someone bump into me from the back, and my hand immediately went down to the buttoned pocket my wallet was in, I felt a guys hand moving away. Two guys were having a bit of a row, I suspect one was telling the other off for bumping into me. My wallet was still in my pocket, although the button was undone. Funnily enough neither of the guys got onto the bus, they walked away, waiting for the next bus, and a more unsuspecting person? This isn't the first time this has been tried on me, so I've got wise and only carry my wallet in a deep buttoned or velcroed pocket, and never have credit cards or much money on me, they would have got just 15€ if they had got my wallet. Just a warning as there are getting to be more and more people about and crowds are getting bigger.

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

There was an article on Expatica concerning the amount of pick pocketing in Barcelona, not in dodgy areas but around the tourist spots.

The main concern was the lack of Polica in known area`s and no response to calls from tourist who have been robbed at knife point.

It`s a sign of hard times and will only get worse.

Spanish news today reporting that 37% of unemployed people arn`t getting any financial help from the govt.

You can`t live on nothing.

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

Hi
My husband was victim to this one in Seville. Two walked quickly in front of us and stopped dead to have a chat, this also stopped us whilst the third one slid his hand into Mikes pocket. He too felt the pickpocket and grabbed him by the wrist. We were lucky that day and now try to keep cash and cards seperate

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

It's not new. My dad was done this same way when getting on a bus in Sheffield 30 yrs ago.:sneaky:

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

........my oh & I, on the metro in Barcelona, not (we believe) looking especially touristy, someone 'drops' a cigarette lighter at our feet, he suspects instantly, goes to tap his rear pocket but too late, microseconds in and someone's got hold of his trouser ankles preventing movement, train moves off (they've leapt off by this stage), he instantly says to me they've got his wallet (not needing to check, just knows) and sure enough the day unfolds in an assortment of phone calls to visa, visits to police station, assistance from the hotel staff, etc etc etc.
They're all pros, that's for sure.

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

Yes I used to see this kind of thing happen near Arc de Triunf in Barcelona every day. On the Sapnish TV news they said over 90% of all pickpockets caught in the Madrid metros were Romanian. Dont know if thats the same in other areas

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

I'd be very careful of believing statistics like that one. It may just mean that the police are targeting one ethnic group who they think are pickpockets - while ignoring others (e.g. spanish / western european looking people).
If they only arrest or search people who are romanian, then it's inevitable that the vast majority of pickpockets will be from that group.

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

Or it could mean that a group recently arrived in Spain, and at the bottom of the social scale, are more likely to have a few desperates resort to street crime. Although I'm not always a big fan of the police, I don't see in a place like Madrid how you could have a policy of only arresting pickpockets who happen to be Romanian (I've met Rumanians there, admittedly in jobs, who you would have sworn were Spanish based on their appearance and fluent use of the language) . For what it's worth, I imagine that in central Madrid over half of all criminals will be non-Spanish - they'll be Latin American, Moroccan, Rumanaian, Russian etc - because a lot of newly arrived will be non-Spanish. The established Spanish will not be interested in committing the crime, as they've got work opportunities (obviously there will be the odd exception).

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

Exactly. In the last 10 years crime has doubled in Spain, its now almost as high as in the UK :) In the same time 4 million foreigners have arrived

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

So does that mean the same principle applies to crime and criminals in other countries too? For example, does it therefore follow that "The established Brits will not be interested in committing the crime [in Britain], as they've got work opportunities"? I don't think you can generalise like that.

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

Which is why I'm not generalising about all crime in all countries. We were talking about pickpockets in central Madrid. For what it's worth, I believe the biggest criminals on the planet are white WASP upper middle-classes - work for banks and governments!

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

Spain is only 35 years out of a fascist dictatorship. Fascists are very good at maintaining order in the community. A lot of members of society would like to overthrow them so the fascists invest heavily in spy networks in the community and heavy punishment. If you do anything out of the ordinary your neighbour will report you to the authorities.

So when Franco died crime was almost non-existant (or very low) in Spain. There were no criminal gangs and no hardened criminals - only some petty crime that grew in the early years of democracy at a local level. So, when Spain's borders opened in came the Brits and Irish (Costa del crime etc) and more recently the Romanians and Russians.

Anyway, thats the end of my thesis...

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

Happened to me a few years back, I was getting on a train at London Bridge station in the rush hour, my purse was in my bag I felt someone tap me on my shoulder at the same time as 2 people in front of me stopped dead. I turned to look to see who had tapped me on the shoulder and felt being pushed from the otherside but if you have travelled in London rush hour you would not take any notice of this. Once on the train I couldn't move as we were squashed in like sardines but at the next station many of the people got off and I checked my bag to find it undone and purse missing. Never carried much in my purse at the best of tome so they only got away with £3.00 and my cards are not kept in my purse.

Reported it to the station police the next day and was told that there was a group of about 25 youngest working as a team, I thought something was strange coz so many people got off at the next station. Same thing then happened to my friend the following week but she lost £600, her childminder had asked to be paid in cash that month and she had used the hole in the wall at the station.

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

I have this encounter with pickpocket when i was in china last year. Almost lost my wallet!

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

I think in the UK we are always wearing substantial/thick clothing and many layers to keep warm and dry,therefore we protect our wallets/purses etc. When we go on holiday to warm countries we wear less and are more exposed!!!
'To pickpockets I mean'
Suddenly my husband starts asking me if I have room for his stuff in my bag!! what a nerve!!
We are targets aren't we? wearing shorts when the slightest bit of sun is out!

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

Seems a fairly 'spot on' one to me :)

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

Apart from Government sponsored thugs of course who "dissapeared" people whenever necessary and buried them at the roadsides

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

This is a bit like bringing back hanging, one of the arguments being that it makes the world a safer place for those who are innocent (one dies but several are saved), even if there is the odd mistake it still actually saves many innocent lives ... overall. :)

What is more humanitarian? hanging someone for a crime and so they never get the chance to take any innocents life and so saving lives or not hanging someone for a crime so they can and have committed more deaths to innocent people? ... personally I think it is more humanitarian to hang and save innocent lives... after all they are the ones worth protecting... saying this while climbing into my protected armour :)

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

A lot of crime in most countries can be put down to immigration.

Spain is suffering from criminals from South America & Eastern Europe.

Spanish culture always had a level of Mafia, goin way back into early 15 centuary.

Today the police are still being caught in brothels, gambling and protection scams.

Franco`s days were not different, just didn`t get reported, Franco controlled the media.

Its got worse thanks to immigration attracting gangs from outside, the reputation of the Costa`s spread. Add the fact the country attracted rich people and there you have a feeding ground for crime.

Having said that, the immigration all over Europe has brought trouble

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

If it is then found that the person hanged is in fact innocent, then should all of those involved in the taking of an innocent life be hung, because they are certainly guilty of taking an innocent life.

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

With DNA its very small chance of makin a mistake, but people die everyday because of mistakes.

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

OK, so what do we do with the people 'waving the humanitarians flag' who let the criminal out to kill more innocent people that would not have lost their life if the criminal was hung in the first place.... because they are against hanging 'humanitarians :unsure:' does that clear them of any guilt?

... so, is it worth taking a very small chance on loosing one innocent person... or saving many more from death or a life that has been destroyed?

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

DNA evidence creates many more "false positives" than conventional methods, so it's very dangerous to convict someone purely on DNA evidence. If you are going to kill people found guilty of crimes, the burden of proof has to be much, much higher than for mere imprisonment - otherwise juries won't find people guilty if they think that person will be killed because of their decision.
(Plus, western democracies like to think they have developed and matured beyond the "eye for an eye" stage - well, most of 'em do, anyway).

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

So how are they getting away with it then. Theres been a few cases in the UK when they have given DNA samples for a minor offence and then been convicted of murder years and years earlier

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

There would be more involved than just DNA, it solely could probably not be used as evidence.

They do in the states and the proof as much as is possible needs to be there, besides... it is not the jury that pass the sentence, just decide if the proof points to them being guilty of the crime.

This is true, we have reached the stage where people aren't happy until there is a party and big fat cheque for an eye this side of the Atlantic! :rofl:

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

Before all the Alf Garnets get going with their cries of "String 'em up!" I'd just like to add that it's safer to wear backpacks on the front.
We learned this in Barcelona when I noticed some little scumbag hanging out of my wife's backpack, when I confronted him and my wife turned around it was startling, about 5 people around us simultaneously fled.

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

Wearing a backpack in any country in the world is like saying "come and rob me I am a tourist" unless you are on a trek in the campo.

Re: New approach by pickpockets?
 

Sew an internal pocket into your jeans. That's what I do if I ever have to carry a large amount of cash.

I'd also suggest carrying a fake cheap wallet in the rear pocket, stuffed with monopoly money, of course.

As for the death penalty. I was quoted that the states in the US which have the death penalty actually have the highest murder rate.

The death penalty isn't a deterrent, neither are strict penalties either. To imprison and finally kill an innocent person is a crime most abhorrent.

Those who commit acts of violence should be regarded as mentally ill, and locked away until they present no further risk. However, the truth of the matter is that not enough care is taken when releasing such people, but if you steal state money cf Ronnie Biggs, and make a fool out of the government, look forward to enjoying a very long imprisonment indeed.

What they should have done with RB when he asked to come back was to say "P*ss off, you are persona non grata. British taxpayers shouldn't have to pay to look after you."