Chiclanagir

Sorry Jo.

Fredbargate

No but it is anti-social.

Years ago smoking was deemed acceptable, this is no longer the case.

Time to update yourself

bil

Yeah, don't worry, I get it. You are free to express your opinion, and surely I am permitted to refute your arguments, especially when they reek of the addict trying to justify their actions. I guess it's more face saving to accuse me of bullying.

Like Fred says, it's no longer socially acceptable for you to smoke, or me to come over and piss in a smoker's ashtray, tho god knows I'm often tempted.

Elle1971

There are a great many things considered anti-social. I do actually agree with you that smoking is one of these. I am one of the few smokers in my social circle... yet ALL my non-smoking friends are happy to come sit on my terrace upwind of my ciggie smoke whilst we share good food, plenty of wine, and stimulating conversation. Likewise, when in restricted areas, and certainly ALWAYS indoors or around children... I respect their rights too, and happily forego a ciggie. Most people seem to want flexibility for all... and appreciate that smokers have less places to enjoy their puffs now and again.

The non-smokers that believe strongly enough to demand that smokers now also shouldn't be allowed to sit outside a bar or restaurant do seem to be in the minority. *They* seem to be restricted to anonymity on message boards and fora, and very very occasionally speak out in public. Most of these are equally outspoken about whatever their government, favourite newspaper or peers have told them they should be complaining about at any given time. I am not referring to you, Fredbargate, per se, as I don't know you from Adam... I am simply going by personal experience over the past few years.

The recent changes in the law have now given non-smokers a lot more freedom in where they can enjoy a smoke free environment. Enjoy that - it's well deserved after years of suffering! But whilst enjoying that, please allow we smokers the freedom and a bit of leeway to smoke in the very few public places where we still can. With a bit of give and take on both sides of the *smoke free* fence, we can all rub along I'm sure.

Elle xx

bil

The whole point of this and other exercises is to marginalise smokers, make it less and less socially acceptable in the hope that this disgusting addiction will shrivel on the vine and die.

I'm sorry, but I don't have a lot of sympathy. Had this habit been more marginalised 20 years ago, then maybe my daughter who smokes would not have been drawn into it.

JLFS

Only tempted to piddle in the ashtray bil???, a load of crap...... come on tell us the when, the where, and what happend as a result.

Dick Dasterdly

You seem to conveniently forget the huge benefits and savings to the health service, not only from reduced cancer treatment, but also other smoking related illnesses such as heart diseases.
The implementation should not be costly at all, once both punters and bar-owners are clear what they can and cannot do.
I have little doubt that within a few weeks there will be a general acceptance and compliance with the law, and any few remaining problems or complaints after that will be quite easily sorted by local police, gladly accepting the opportunity of calling in at local bars during their normal rounds.

I agree with bil, it is truly amazing the lengths that smokers will go to, in order to try and justify their drug addiction.

Elle1971

I agree... and we're certainly feeling marginalised nowadays... although more so in the UK and Ireland than where I live, so far.

Speaking entirely for myself, I'm not after sympathy at all. I'm a big girl with broad shoulders... and quite enjoy this newsworthy chat.

By the way... I did laugh when I saw your ashtray comment!! If I wasn't such a lady, I'd have spat my vino all over the keyboard (actually... it's got nothing to do with being a lady... it's just that the vino is on rapid chill in the freezer as we speak instead). But if you did feel the need to expose yourself in order to fill my ashtray, then I am afraid I would have no choice to put my cigarette out somewhere... and then I do believe that passive smoking would be the least of your worries, and you might have to start wearing a sarong.

Right - I'm off for the evening now chaps and chappesses. I shall be back for more frivolity / debate / chat tomorrow... but for now I need my sofa, dry white wine and naff telly - and that's not going to happen in the office. Have a good Sunday everyone, and watch that ciggie smoke!

Elle xx

agoreira

I think they all make the assumption that when they stop smoking, they are going to save that money, the government will collect no tax. But I'm willing to bet they will end up spending the same amount, it'll just be on different things, something extra for the kids, a few more meals out, or whatever. So make no mistake the government will still be relieving you of tax, just collecting it in a different way.

Dick Dasterdly

Can we all come along and watch the fun ?.
Should make a great vid.for you tube.

scampicat

My son has Aspergers Syndrome (a mild form of autism) and because of this has various obsessions.

One of these, when he was younger, (he is nearly 31 now) was that he would not even sit near a clean, empty ashtray. If we went out for a meal or something he would not sit down until the offending object was not just taken away, but taken away to somewhere he where couldn't even see it, like behind the curtains six tables away.

If people dared to light up in his vicinity he would keep quiet about it (only because we'd spent hours drumming it into him that it was bad manners to tell them off, otherwise he would have done), but if he'd finished eating, he would go and wait for us in the car park.

He would not go and visit my friend here in the village two years ago because she smokes so much.

He has even requested at his work (he works in Morrisons), that if at all possible they don't put him to work on the fags section. (So far they haven't).

He has always hated it with a vengeance, ever since he was a toddler.

So he is one who absolutely LOVES the smoking ban, has absolutely no sympathy for smokers and would not be happy at Elle's smoking next to him. In fact he would probably move away from a smoker.

He always says if people want to kill themselves they should do it in private.

I haven't met many people quite as vehemently against it as he is, but lots of people are pleased that they can now go out to a bar and not have their eyes water, their clothes and hair stink and their chest wheeze due to someone else's preference.

This is probably too much information, but when I have come back from a night out at our local, the stink of cigarettes goes all the way through to my underclothes! In fact up until the ban I would put old clothes that needed washing on to go out, as I didn't want my new ones to smell.

So it would be very nice if the ban DID work.

licinius

Sorry but it doesn't matter how you dress like if your clothes & hair stink. You keep missing the point, nobody is trying to tell you that you can't smoke, all we are saying is "we don't want to share your habit".

If your actions affect somebody else, it is your fault............ not theirs!

Dick Dasterdly

Exactly,
There are millions of acres of public space where you can puff merrily away to your hearts content without bothering anybody,except possibly the local wildlife.
However if by public spaces you refer to areas where you may be fairly close to those who do not wish to share your smoke, or may possibly be highly allergic to it, then it should be a definite No,No.

bil

I am actually far too much of a gentleman to actually piss in peoples' ashtrays. I just wish they had the manners to match, and keep well away from me with their polluting, antisocial behaviour.

To me the balance is clear. If a non smoker is near you, don't smoke. Go somewhere else. If necessary, keep going till you are out of sight. Don't expect me to move. Why should I?

If you don't have the will power or the brains to quit, fair enough. I genuinely pity you.

Elle1971

Dick Dasterdly - yes, there is plenty of outdoor space where I can puff away to my heart's content - but I also have as much right to go out to a bar and a restaurant and carry on a LEGAL activity as the next person. I would refer you to my posts above where I have specifically stated that I DID sit as far away as possible from the non smoking table (they could have moved 20 feet away if I offended them so). I am not speaking about every smoker on the planet... I am speaking about me... and, more to the point, specifically about last night's events. I actually don't go out very often - I prefer to stay home and cook for my friends. But until smoking is actually banned... then I shall continue to smoke in non-restricted areas, whilst continuing to exercise the concern and awareness of others that I already do.

Licinius - you stated that you are not saying we can't smoke... just that you don't want to share it. I repeat again that I am very aware of non-smokers, and do what I can to avoid *contaminating* them. I am not prepared to go without a drink in a bar (or should I actually say "outside" a bar), or a meal at a restaurant... just in case someone who is offended should possibly walk by and get a whiff of my cigarette.

Bil - from what I have seen on this forum, you seem to be quite able to argue your views in a knowledgeable and forthright adult manner. So, you've disappointed me in your response by questioning *my* brains - I would remind you that is supposed to be a forum for adult debate, not purile insults. That's the kind of behaviour I would experience when listening to my teenage stepsons bicker amongst themselves - not from you. Come on now... you're better than that.

Scampicat - I genuinely feel for your son. My baby sister (she's now 24) has Aspergers also... and so I fully understand all about the condition, and where you are coming from. I appreciate the point you are trying to make, but it's a description of something quite unique that others may jump upon... regardless of genuine concern for your lad. I hope he has a good quality of life in other areas - I wish him well. xx

.................................................. .................................................. ...

What this thread seems to be turning into is not a "do not smoke"... but more of a "do not use bars and restaurants... even outdoors... and even if following the law... if you happen to smoke". The original subject was "Is the new anti-smoking law working?", but it has turned into something quite different.

Wikipedia says the following: "Within sociology, 'discrimination' is the prejudicial treatment of an individual based solely on their membership in a certain group or category. Discrimination is the actual behavior towards members of another group. It involves excluding or restricting members of one group from opportunities that are available to other groups".

Elle xx