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Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Old Dec 21st 2020, 8:26 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Originally Posted by Chipmonk
It doesn't matter if you buy or rent , you can only stay over 90days if you are a full resident.
can a UK citizen who has residency in one schengan country eg Spain, travel from Spain and live in eg France for 91 or more days.....or do they have to be a citizen of the schengen (eg Spain) country ? Ok they wont be caught at a customs check as there wont be one but is it legal?

Last edited by Rosemary; Dec 21st 2020 at 9:03 pm. Reason: corrected quote
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Old Dec 21st 2020, 9:09 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

[QUOTE=atlasthemonk;12948472]
Originally Posted by Chipmonk
It doesn't matter if you buy or rent , you can only stay over 90days if you are a full resident.

can a UK citizen who has residency in one schengan country eg Spain, travel from Spain and live in eg France for 91 or more days.....or do they have to be a citizen of the schengen (eg Spain) country ? Ok they wont be caught at a customs check as there wont be one but is it legal?
It's exactly the same position as Brits were in when the UK was a member state. Technically EU citizens have the right to visit another EU country for a maximum of 90 days consecutive. That is what EU rules say. Most EU countries have this in their laws but don't enforce it because it would be virtually impossible to enforce and why would they bother. I think the main point of the rules is to make a clear distinction between exercising your right to visit another country as a tourist, and exercising your freedom of movement to make your home in another country. Countries have no obligations towards visitors, as a tourist you have no rights to healthcare or anything like that in the country you are visiting and if you run out of money while you're there or get into some sort of mess, you're on your own if your home country won't bail you out. As distinct from residents who have moved permanently to a new country and registered with the authorities there and as such that country has certain responsibilites to look after them, they have rights and entitlements there, and also obligations such as paying taxes and stuff.
So, after 1 January, Brits who are resident in a Schengen country such as Spain, will still have the right to visit any other EU country as a visitor for up to 90 days consecutive in each because that part of freedom of movement is protected by the withdrawal agreement, but they won't have the right to make their home there because that is the part of freedom of movement that they lost with Brexit.
Not sure if that helps or not, I think I'm rambling...
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Old Dec 21st 2020, 9:26 pm
  #33  
 
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Basically, freedom of movement gives you the right to MOVE freely within the EU but it does not give you the right to stay for more than 90 days without applying for the right to stay.

it is the most frequently misunderstood of the various EU rights.
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Old Dec 21st 2020, 10:19 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Originally Posted by Fred James
Basically, freedom of movement gives you the right to MOVE freely within the EU but it does not give you the right to stay for more than 90 days without applying for the right to stay.

it is the most frequently misunderstood of the various EU rights.
There are a lot of UK swallows staying the 6 winter months in Spain unknowingly breaking the law then !
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Old Dec 21st 2020, 10:47 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

But thank you for the "90 day....clarification"
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Old Dec 21st 2020, 11:06 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Originally Posted by Fred James
it is the most frequently misunderstood of the various EU rights.
Misunderstood or just ignored?
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Old Dec 22nd 2020, 8:51 am
  #37  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Originally Posted by atlasthemonk
There are a lot of UK swallows staying the 6 winter months in Spain unknowingly breaking the law then !
Substitute "unknowingly" with "flagrantly".
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Old Dec 22nd 2020, 10:24 am
  #38  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Originally Posted by Fred James
Basically, freedom of movement gives you the right to MOVE freely within the EU but it does not give you the right to stay for more than 90 days without applying for the right to stay.

it is the most frequently misunderstood of the various EU rights.
Strictly speaking, EU citizens who move to another EU state have the right to stay for 3 months to look for work, holiday or engage in business etc, after which they are required to register under the national law or leave. But there is no obligation to stay away for any fixed period and can return straightaway to begin further 3 months, and so on. You aren't breaking any EU law for not registering as resident (and UK when as EU member didn't require any registration for EU citizens), but not registering means you may not be able to access certain services such as healthcare, right to vote in EU elections etc. So unregistered 'swallows' weren't breaking any EU law though they were in breach of Spanish law, but Spain like most EU countries didn't enforce it.
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Old Dec 22nd 2020, 12:00 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

i agree with Joppa. too many people confuse Schengen 90/180 rule that was NOT applicable to UK citizens (and still is not until the end of the year) and the 3-month rule according to Freedom of movement directive (according to which EU citizen can stay in another EU country without need to register, but can leave and re-enter without limit in a year).
from 1 Jan 2021 90/180 rule will apply to UK citizens. unless you have residency in an EU country - then days spent in only that country do not count towards 90/180.
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Old Dec 22nd 2020, 1:30 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Originally Posted by yevlondon
i agree with Joppa. too many people confuse Schengen 90/180 rule that was NOT applicable to UK citizens (and still is not until the end of the year) and the 3-month rule according to Freedom of movement directive (according to which EU citizen can stay in another EU country without need to register, but can leave and re-enter without limit in a year).
from 1 Jan 2021 90/180 rule will apply to UK citizens. unless you have residency in an EU country - then days spent in only that country do not count towards 90/180.
So once you become a legal resident in one EEA country or Switzerland, you can stay in the rest of EEA and Schengen states as a whole for 90-in-180 days. But since you are mainly moving within the Schengen area, your passport won't be stamped or you won't be subject to ETIAS screening when introduced so it remains to be seen how 90-in-180 rule can be monitored. Currently, those who attain permanent residency in one EU state can 'transfer' permanent residency to most other countries under the Lisbon Treaty, but it remains to be seen whether it will be extended to cover British citizens who are beneficiaries of the withdrawal agreement.
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Old Dec 22nd 2020, 1:39 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Originally Posted by Joppa
So once you become a legal resident in one EEA country or Switzerland, you can stay in the rest of EEA and Schengen states as a whole for 90-in-180 days. But since you are mainly moving within the Schengen area, your passport won't be stamped or you won't be subject to ETIAS screening when introduced so it remains to be seen how 90-in-180 rule can be monitored. Currently, those who attain permanent residency in one EU state can 'transfer' permanent residency to most other countries under the Lisbon Treaty, but it remains to be seen whether it will be extended to cover British citizens who are beneficiaries of the withdrawal agreement.
I am pretty sure that early on it was decided that UK nationals with residency in one country based on WA are not able to transfer residency to another EU member country
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Old Dec 22nd 2020, 3:21 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Originally Posted by Chipmonk
I am pretty sure that early on it was decided that UK nationals with residency in one country based on WA are not able to transfer residency to another EU member country
Yes, that's my understanding too but this is something that can still be negotiated in 2021 and later.
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Old Dec 22nd 2020, 5:06 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Originally Posted by Joppa
Yes, that's my understanding too but this is something that can still be negotiated in 2021 and later.
Agree, I seem to remember there was quite a bit of talk at one stage about the the right to "onward movement" as it was called, but I believe the Withdrawal Agreement specifically states that Brits do not get this right.
Since the UK has asked and the EU has said no, I'm doubtful that it could be negotiated easily because the UK has no reciprocal right to offer in return. EU citizens resident in the UK still have the automatic right to move to any EU country.
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Old Dec 22nd 2020, 9:40 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Originally Posted by yevlondon
i agree with Joppa. too many people confuse Schengen 90/180 rule that was NOT applicable to UK citizens (and still is not until the end of the year) and the 3-month rule according to Freedom of movement directive (according to which EU citizen can stay in another EU country without need to register, but can leave and re-enter without limit in a year).
from 1 Jan 2021 90/180 rule will apply to UK citizens. unless you have residency in an EU country - then days spent in only that country do not count towards 90/180.
I agree both points too.

There will be a lot of lost UK tourist revenue from those who like to stay for long periods in one country or several for that matter as part of long stay touring (young and older alike). Applying for long stay visas (+90) and all the visits to different consulates is quite unappealing and bureauratic. EITAS are currently for 90 days or less in any 180 sadly but the online application process opens up the possibility of incorporating different timeframes.

Also, currently you could stay for as long as you like until you get to passport control on the way back...Not sure how that would pan out. Maybe a member has practical experience of such.

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Old Dec 23rd 2020, 1:30 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Originally Posted by Bo S
Also, currently you could stay for as long as you like until you get to passport control on the way back...Not sure how that would pan out. Maybe a member has practical experience of such.
At least until very recently, as far as I know, there hasn't been any passport control on the way out for departures to the UK, so UK residents would have been unlikely to have been copped for overstaying.
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