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Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Old Dec 16th 2020, 4:52 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Originally Posted by EuroTrash
Your passport will be stamped when you enter Schengen to show the date you entered, and that will count as your first day.
The day on which you leave is also counted as a day.
So as Dxf and Joppa have said, arrival and departure days both come off your 90 day allowance. It's logical.
Stamping of passport has been the only way to determine how many days a non-visa third-country national has spent in Schengen to enforce 90-in-180 days rule. It is a system with a lot of holes, as some border agents don't bother stamping passports. Most Schengen states have been relaxed about first-world visitors (who bring in a lot of revenue) overstaying the limits, unless they can pose particular threats or problems (e.g. penniless youths working illegally, claiming benefits). With the need to tighten border controls because of the threat of terrorism and illegal immigration, EU is introducing the first fully electronic entry and exit control with the ETIAS (from 2022 onwards), which will make it much easier to spot overstayers and other illegals, and take actions if they choose to do so. With Brexit, UK citizens will be subject to ETIAS control and, other than long-stay and permanent residents in a Schengen state, their movement will be tracked.
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Old Dec 16th 2020, 8:20 pm
  #17  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

1. So if you want to spend the winter months (4,5,6 months) in southern Spain/Europe you will have to apply for a long stay visa through the Spanish embassy?

2. I am minded to think that countries who accomodate Brits on a regular longvstay basis will over-ride the 180 rolling rule or is this set in euro stone?
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Old Dec 16th 2020, 8:37 pm
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Originally Posted by Bo S
1. So if you want to spend the winter months (4,5,6 months) in southern Spain/Europe you will have to apply for a long stay visa through the Spanish embassy?
Basically, yes. Long-stay visa is country-specific, though you may be able to combine that with Schengen rule for other states.

2. I am minded to think that countries who accommodate Brits on a regular long-stay basis will over-ride the 180 rolling rule or is this set in euro stone?
It's the Schengen rule. Spain can, if they want to, make exception for UK citizens but there is no movement in that direction. I would imagine it will be sometime in the future if Spain decides it's in their interest to let Brits stay longer. They will probably ask for reciprocity from UK government over Spanish nationals, though they can stay up to 6 months in UK from January.

Last edited by Joppa; Dec 16th 2020 at 8:40 pm.
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Old Dec 16th 2020, 8:43 pm
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Spanish and other EU nationals can of course already stay in UK for up to 183 DAYS.
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Old Dec 16th 2020, 9:48 pm
  #20  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Now you mention it I think I did read that Spain and Portugal want to allow Brits to stay for longer.
How does that work with Schengen though, would you have to exit via the Spanish border? because if you tried to exit via France after 90 days they would think you'd overstayed wouldn't they.
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Old Dec 16th 2020, 11:13 pm
  #21  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Longer stay for Brits will have to be apart from the Schengen rule such as asking specifically for a longer stay in Spain/Portugal, or you need to get electronic visa in advance.
When eventually leaving Spain/Portugal, you will have to arrive in a non-Schengen state first. This is how special 3-month stay works for Australians in France, Italy, Spain etc. as Australia had concluded visa-waiver treaty before the advent of Schengen.

Last edited by Joppa; Dec 16th 2020 at 11:29 pm.
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Old Dec 17th 2020, 2:20 am
  #22  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

The rolling 90 day rule is a a real pain for extended travelling.
In many countries you just go out of that country for a week or even less and then back in again with a fresh stay.
In the case of Schengen it's a case of only one extra day for every day you're out.
The individual country long stay visas (12 months) usually involve a fair bit of paper work but some countries from what I have read (Italy for example) area little easier than others. These visas also place restrictions on your arrival and departure countries. Certainly not hassle free travel by any means.
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Old Dec 17th 2020, 9:52 am
  #23  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Originally Posted by carbolic
The individual country long stay visas (12 months) usually involve a fair bit of paper work but some countries from what I have read (Italy for example) area little easier than others. These visas also place restrictions on your arrival and departure countries. Certainly not hassle free travel by any means.
One of the most tedious conditions for a long-stay visa is you usually have to apply in person at a consulate (long journey if you live in the back of beyond), and supporting documents required, such as financial, health insurance, medical, criminal record check and reason for an extended stay, such as particular affiliation with the country in terms of culture, language and history.
Most type D visas (long-stay visa issued by individual Schengen state) have '+5 transit Schengen' or similar written on them, meaning you are allowed to enter Schengen through another state but have to enter the visa-issuing country within 5 days.
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Old Dec 19th 2020, 9:05 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

You want to travel Europe for year. Spend three months touring Spain. You then want to exit and explore France for three months. Does the immigration officer turn you away? Then Italy then Germany. Same scenario? I know you could visit the four consulates in person and obtain LS visas but what a massive pain and expense.

There has got to be some reciprocal tourist friendly arrangements in due course. Surely?
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Old Dec 20th 2020, 8:26 am
  #25  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Originally Posted by Bo S
You want to travel Europe for year. Spend three months touring Spain. You then want to exit and explore France for three months. Does the immigration officer turn you away?
You wouldn't normally pass through any passport controls travelling between Spain and France.

Originally Posted by Bo S
Then Italy then Germany. Same scenario?


Originally Posted by Bo S
I know you could visit the four consulates in person and obtain LS visas but what a massive pain and expense.
Where you'd encounter your problem if you didn't get your extended visit authorised, would be on exiting the Schengen Zone. They'd clock that you'd overstayed and apply an appropriate sanction.

Originally Posted by Bo S
There has got to be some reciprocal tourist friendly arrangements in due course. Surely?
I would have thought not, as a Schengen-wide measure, beyond what is already available to 3rd country nationals.

Not until such time as the UK chooses to become part of the EEA, anyway.
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Old Dec 20th 2020, 10:18 am
  #26  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Vociferous they might be in the big picture the numbers of British citizens standing to be significantly affected by the enforcing of the 90/180 day rule are tiny and insignificant and unlikely to warrant special dispensation.
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Old Dec 20th 2020, 7:19 pm
  #27  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Originally Posted by Notdunroamin
Vociferous they might be in the big picture the numbers of British citizens standing to be significantly affected by the enforcing of the 90/180 day rule are tiny and insignificant and unlikely to warrant special dispensation.
1. I am not so sure about insignificant numbers. If you are a snowbird then you are like a large number of us spending the winter in say Spain for say Oct/Nov/Dec/Jan/Feb & Mar on a apartment rental basis. So we cannot do this now?

2. If you buy a property in 2021 (after the Brexit outcome) can you occupy without being bound by the 90/180 rule?
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Old Dec 20th 2020, 8:39 pm
  #28  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Snowbirds will likely still come for 3 months so at worst a 50% loss, remembering of course that 90 days in 180 has ALWAYS been the rule.

Owning property has nothing whatsoever to do with anything either now or after.

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Old Dec 20th 2020, 8:39 pm
  #29  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Originally Posted by Bo S
1. I am not so sure about insignificant numbers. If you are a snowbird then you are like a large number of us spending the winter in say Spain for say Oct/Nov/Dec/Jan/Feb & Mar on a apartment rental basis. So we cannot do this now?

2. If you buy a property in 2021 (after the Brexit outcome) can you occupy without being bound by the 90/180 rule?
It doesn't matter if you buy or rent , you can only stay over 90days if you are a full resident. The UK ( England and Wales) voted to leave the EU despite being told that there would be certain disadvantages. For many the idea of sovereignty ( a wide indefinable idea) was/ is worth it. Free movement is no longer a right that UK citizens have and will no doubt never again. Wealthy folk like many of the most prominent members of the Leave campaign will find golden visas easy to acquire if they wish to spend their golden years in sunnier climes, which I am no doubt sure many will do.
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Old Dec 20th 2020, 9:32 pm
  #30  
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Default Re: Need "90 days in any 180-day period" clarification

Originally Posted by Notdunroamin
Snowbirds will likely still come for 3 months so at worst a 50% loss, remembering of course that 90 days in 180 has ALWAYS been the rule.

Owning property has nothing whatsoever to do with anything either now or after.
Precisely.

It always strikes me as a little odd that some seem to think that imposing third country rules on UK citizens would somehow be something taboo for the EU. They're already preventing citizens of any number of countries from benefiting from EU member state status - why would it be any different for a departing member? (unless said departing member had negotiated a relationship which included such a thing, which was, of course, a possibility until the UK government ruled it out) .

And as you say, hitherto anybody from the UK staying longer than 90 days in the Schengen Zone without explicit permission always was breaking the rules, even if they were blissfully unaware of the fact because a blind eye was always turned to it.
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