spainrico

I live in a Spanish village and it is rare to hear English spoken.

OK bfg69bug I also respect your opinion and views - but a couple of points I pay Movistar 53€ pm for my ADSL contract (going rate with no pensioner allowances) and pay around 50€ a month for electricity (yes Spain has one of the highest unit costs in EU thanks to extortionate IVA rate) but I do also use butano.

Regarding salary rates there will always be a difference in UK/Spain rates due to higher UK cost of living but admit 750€ is not a high salary and I understand work is difficult my lady friend's daughter (Spanish) has a doctorate degree and is currently selling jewellery due to no other opportunities to use her extensive qualifications.

Regarding property Madrid is a popular capital city so of course prices are high and cannot be compared to some UK backwater - this site says average price per M2 is Spain is 4,978€ compared to UK 21,179€ https://www.statista.com/statistics/...8-per-country/
But agree here a high deposit is required - the banks got badly burnt with mortgages in 2008 after over lending to over inflated property valuations.

I may be comfortable now but I also had it tough when I had my first home and remember mortgages rates going up to 15% and doing a lot of overtime to make up my money.

Anyway lets hope the vaccine helps resolve the COVID-19 issue and the economy and standard of living can improve for all on 2021 and beyond.

bfg69bug

I was not intending to start an argument, this is simply a discussion - everyone has different wants and needs, and when we move ourselves and our families to a new country we often expect to have the exact same sort of property and outgoings, but with a better quality of life. Afterall, thats why we do it, no? to improve on something.

Refering to the Op´s post about Madrid - I´ve never been there, but looking at the house prices - its comparable to London in that sense - if you want anything "nice" ie not an apartment in a undesireable barrio. I see he came here in 2014 - to rent a "franco piso" for 500€ in madrid...but then had to travel 1.5 hours each way for work? assuming that in IT its a full working day, 0800-14.00 and 1700-2100 ?? he´d be up at 0600 and getting home at 2230 ?? thats no life at all, for anyone - much less someone that comes to spain thinking their life would get better. He doesnt say what his wage was at the time - but assuming its less that hes on now (30K) I would guess about th same as the UK wage but in euros - 22k. At 1830/month i would of thought that he would be living very well, even if his wife wasnt working.

What went wrong? with that amount of cash each month everything should be peachy.

With regards to the family and the friends and the missus not wanting him to be with his friends, only with her family.. well - thats a personal issue and nothing to do with spain as such, but its unfortunate that it lead to the breakdown of his marrige. If only things could of been talked through etc - unfortunatly alot of spanish girls / women follow their parents beliefs and views, and anyone disagreeing with them becomes "the enemy". It will never end well.

spainrico - living in a spanish village is what my parents apparently came here for .. but they ended up in Alhaurin el Grande - 90% Spanish in 1998, but in 2020 i think its more 40-60. You cant go out / go shopping / go into town / go to a remote resturant without hearing english voices. My dad now only pays €50 for his fibre / telephone, until last year hes been paying €150+ for the last 20 years.

I´ve just had a look on the bairstow eves website and to be fair i was actually shocked at the prices of the houses - they have gone up so much since i last looked - its no wonder that people see the houses in spain and how much cheaper they are.

Rosemary nobody is talking about retirees - we are talking about people moving here to work.



I´d be interested to see the stats on this website, to see the user ages / working status etc of the regular users - I imagine most of "us" are retired? - I´m not, i´m probably one of the younger people here at 39 years old, and i´ve been working in the same company at Malaga Airport for 10 years now.

spainrico

No argument that I am aware of has been started.

Alhaurin el Grande - I have never visited but is famous because of its connection to Gerald Brenan the famous hispanist and writer who is a bit of a hero of mine.

I think the number of Brits living in Spain has peaked and I would assume post Brexit the numbers arriving will reduce - whether that is good or bad is a matter of opinion!

Maybe one moral out of this thread is for people to review their comms/ADSL costs!

WhamBham

Hi so basically out of my wage i pay 600 for the kids maintenance, and 500 on rent i earn 2100 a month after tax after Internet 62 a month, light 80 a month, water 5 a month, car insurance 25 a month, and food 250 a month to feed myself and the kids, desiel etc i have about 400 a month, to buy clothes, or go out be social or try and save. I just received notification that my renta for 2019 was incorrect also so i will be getting a bill for 2500. I was planning to move to a nicer area were the rent is 800 a month but dont think that will materialise. I am originally from Manchester born and bread. To be honest its a struggle everyday i cant save because the spanish tax system is higher than the uk one, i get sleepless nights. Im torn between returning to the uk im 39 at the moment. and try and buy a house and save in the uk, so when the kids grow up they have a home in the uk were tgey are always welcome. Rather than a rented franco piso. And maybe try and get them on summer holidays and Christmas or puentes. Right now the kids are 8 and 5 maybe when they are older and before im 50 And they are able to understand why i want to go back to the uk and that i love them and will always be at the other end of the line, video call, and anytime they want they can come. i can make the journey back to the uk to try and salvage some kind of retirement. Im a bi developer in the uk id be thriving and saving for uni gunds for the kids. in spain im barely surviving. Do you think its selfish to think like this

jonboy

Do you have extra rooms in your piso that you could rent to lodgers?

WhamBham

I have 3 bedrooms the 2 boys sleep in one and my daughter sleeps in the other. No spare rooms im afraid. Luckily i get the paga extra so xmas and holidays to the beach are covered.
Like its been said before if your retired spain is the perfect place, but if your working and young even with a degree and speak fluently madrid is expensive. You get taxed on everything changing cars, gestors, tasas for admin work. I personally and know many Spaniards working 40 or 50 hours, last night i was on a confrance call at 11pm at night with spaniards. Now you tell me who said spain has work life balance. I will now finish dinner and go back to finish my projects

scot47

People go on holiday to Spain and then think about living there. It is not so easy ! thanks for posting this "corrective" for those who dream about "Paradise in The Sun" We used to see them coming to Bulgaria 20 years ago and falling into the same trap !

jonboy

This appears to be the problem.
You are paying out for your family (3 kids) and working long hours and what is hurting is that your money is less than adequate. Your wife is estranged from you and you are as a result in a thankless position. The added complication is that you are in another country. I sort of suspect not much would be different in the UK other than some items would be more competitively priced. Without access to the kids you would also feel disadvantaged but in a different way.
Relationship breakdowns are so debilitating to both parties. I do not know the answer to that one.

Chipmonk

I sympathise with the original OP. I am sure he is aware of the fact that aspects of his predicament are related to Spain and others are personal. When these problems occur you tend to react against the apparent injustices of life. None of us are above that. I suppose he feels a certain resentment towards his fellow countrymen who lead relatively comfortable lives in Spain and who give the impression that this was achieved by cleverness and foresight whereas it was more likely just favourable circumstances. Of course resentment wont solve the predicament and no doubt probably will make it worse. Better to look at the achievements gained : language, cultural assimilation, bilingual children, life experience. Personally I wouldn't leave Spain when the children live here and probably wouldn't be able to move to UK until 16 at earliest. Saving for homes, education seems admirable but it will all come to zero if you are unable to build strong relationships with them and this really needs to be in person not via skype etc. He has a job he has has the language he has a flat. It is far from perfect but he can survive and sacrifice a bit of himself for the future happiness of his kids

WhamBham

I dont feel any resentment towards my country men, they have chosen a different direction in life that turned out great. I am aware and understand personal factors and factors of spain. I am aware when i was in the uk i was not under such an intense stress i had my family and friends to lean on and help,
Spain wont change, i have tried to change assimilating to the spanish way but that has not helped either. The bond between my kids and me are very strong, even though i only see them 4 times a month. When they turn 14,15,16 that bond wont disappear, the bond has already solidified a teenager who is 16 can then choose to live in the uk with his father or stay with his mother in spain. Spain has one of the lowest job security in the eu, one of the lowest wages in the eu, the highest taxes. I wouldn't want my sons to work in spain after living it. But i would want to provide the means and security to if they needed work and live in the uk. And i think a 16 year old would understand that dont you think. I have sacrificed more than most would spent nights in a jail cell on my kids bday because my ex put in a false accusation, so i could not spend the bday with my kids. My kids saw there father being taken away by the police, yet i stay. And im not the only one thousands of spanish men are in the same situation. Would you want your kids to live in such a country were justice, and imparciality basic human rights are thrown out. I wouldn't

Chipmonk

It seems to me you have made up your mind to return to UK in which case I you probably just want reassurance in your decision. At the end of the day though it is up to you.

Moses2013

I suppose it always comes down to your personal situation. In reality over 30K is a pretty good salary for Spain and many IT jobs pay a lot less. Truth is that kids cost money, so the family with 3 kids will always need more money than a couple without kids. These challenges remain in every country, so if it's better in the UK I don't know. Maybe people with kids in the UK have better opportunities to get social housing, other benefits.

WhamBham

In spain kids in primary you have to buy the uniform, the books that change every year and are expensive, you have to pay for school materials like paper and glue, the meals are 80 euros a month for one child. School trips are higher than the uk.
Yes education is not free in spain it should be but there are cost's regardless of your income. Most spanish dont travel outside of Spain because they are taking out 40 year mortgages and cant afford it. I had one spanish friend who moved to London and does not want to return because the wages are too good. I think the problem is unlike the uk were nobs are shared across major citys, london taking a big chunk, spain never tried to diversify itself its madrid or nothing. Or Barcelona but thats another topic

rspltd

I am following this discussion with great interest.One point that has been raised and is often raised in these type of discussions is the benefit of children raised in the foreign country being bilingual being seen as a benefit. I was taught three languages at school and continued with them thereafter and whilst not fluent I am able to converse with most native speakers and make myself understood and yet I can see no tangible benefits in being so. With mobile phones being a constant companion these days and translators being digitised there seems no need to have detailed knowledge of language anymore (other than you own). I watched a very successful negotiation carried out in a Turkish supermarket between the staff and a Japanese lady all carried out by phone.

Chipmonk

It is very true. Nowadays technology is capable of doing so much when it comes to language translations. I know people who go to the doctor etc and just use their phone rather than a translator. Of course it's nice to be bilingual but I dont think it will be such a huge benefit in the future