My complicated problem
 

First,a little background…
I am 64 yrs old and interested in residence when I’m 67+. II hold a UK and Irish passports.
I am due to receive a small UK State Pension,though I left the UK for the US some 30 years ago.
I have a pre existing condition (Parkinson’s) which I have had for the past two years,so this I believe precludes me from the mandatory one year private medical Insurance.
My Wife is a US citizen and would piggyback on my Irish passport I believe.
So? I’m searching for the Unexplored legal Avenue to residence,given the circumstances and predicament I find myself in.
Thanks !

Re: My complicated problem
 

As far as I can see, your only realistic chance (other than paying extortionate private medical insurance) is if you are entitled to S1, a certificate that says UK will pay for your healthcare in Spain. UK government website says you are entitled if you get UK state pension, but it doesn't say any minimum amount you must get. I suggest you contact their helpdesk [email protected]. If you do get S1, your wife will be covered too and get her own S1 even if she is below UK state retirement age. You apply for residency with your Irish passport.

Re: My complicated problem
 

Thanks Joppa.I hadn’t considered the S1as we would be applying post Brexit and not resident in the UK ?

Re: My complicated problem
 

UK negotiated a last-minute deal for continuation of S1 with EU. Brief description I've read doesn't say anything about UK residency, so I suggest you clear it up with help desk.

Re: My complicated problem
 

Even if you qualify for an S1 it cannot be used as proof of health insurance when applying for a visa, for that you must have one years private cover.

Possession of an S1 entitles you to the same health care as a native Spanish person, no more no less.

Re: My complicated problem
 

OP has an Irish passport, so can use S1 as proof of health cover when registering as EU resident. No visa required.

Re: My complicated problem
 

No idea but wasn't the NHS always residence based, so to apply you need to be living in the UK and receive full pension from UK?

What are the rules if you receive a UK State Pension?

If you meet certain criteria such as being of State Pension age or receiving certain benefits, and moved to the EU before 31 December 2020, then you may remain eligible for NHS treatment. If this is the case you’ll usually have to apply for an S1 form, which can be used to prove your eligibility. It’s worth noting that if you receive a pension in another country, you may not be able to claim NHS treatment.

Re: My complicated problem
 

If you want to use a UK S1 then I don't believe you will be able to use an Irish passport for residency, you cannot mix-n-match like that.

To obtain an S1 from Ireland you need to be registered there for healthcare and paid into the system for I think for at least 12 months. In effect that means living and working there.

An Irish passport is not the all embracing 'get out of Brexit free' card many believe it to be!

None of which negates what I said about an S1 not being valid for a visa application which brings it back to the OP's problem in securing private health insurance for the first year.

Re: My complicated problem
 

It’s crazy that you can’t use an S1 for residency until you have actually got residency. It’s the ultimate Catch 22 situation.

That is something that really needs to change otherwise almost no retirees will get a visa - they almost certainly have some relatively trivial health condition that precludes almost all private insurance as it does not cover any pre-existing medical problems.

Just taking Statins or blood pressure medication will usually be a problem.

Re: My complicated problem
 

The requirement for private or state-funded medical insurance required for registration as EU citizen in Spain (from the Ministry of the Interior):

i. Public or private health insurance contracted in Spain or in another country, provided that it ensures cover in Spain during their period of residence equivalent to the cover provided by the National Health System. Pensioners will be considered to meet this condition if they can prove, by means of the corresponding certificate, that they are entitled to health care paid for by the State from which they receive their pension.

It doesn't say from the country of their nationality, so any S1 certificate or equivalent from any country can be used. This is sensible as a lot of people have worked in several countries and receive pensions from them. So for example a French citizen who gets no pension from France as they haven't worked there but spent their entire working life in Germany and receive pension from them can submit German S1 when registering as resident in Spain.

Re: My complicated problem
 

Thats not actually correct. My friend registered last year and took his S1 to the immigration meeting and that was accepted.

Re: My complicated problem
 

what visa did they apply for first?

Re: My complicated problem
 

On a NLV, retired with a view to a golden visa or whatever it is when they buy a property.

Re: My complicated problem
 

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________
Hi all,
Can I jump in?
I am so confused...S1!
In September I will be over 66 and a UK pensioner on full UK pension. My partner who will be 59 with a Irish Passport.
Can I apply for a S1? Also will my partner be covered?
We hope to rent in Spain for 3 months from Sept 2022 to look at different properties. Once we find a long term rental we will move over full time.
Regards
Keith n Macy

Re: My complicated problem
 

All explained here: https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/hea...ur-healthcare/

UK-funded healthcare using an S1 form

If you move to an EU country or Switzerland and you receive a UK State Pension, you may be entitled to state healthcare paid for by the UK.

You'll need to apply for a certificate of entitlement known as an S1 form. S1 forms show that your state healthcare is paid for by the UK if you live in an EU country or Switzerland.

If you’re applying for an S1 form in Switzerland, you'll need to satisfy additional nationality criteria to be eligible. You'll only be issued with an S1 in Switzerland if you're a UK national, a Swiss national, an EU citizen, a refugee or a stateless person, or if you're the family member or survivor of someone who has one of these nationalities or statuses.

If you receive both a pension from the country you now live in and your UK State Pension, you cannot get an S1 form. This is because the country you live in will be responsible for your healthcare.

If you receive your UK State Pension as well as a pension from an EU member state, but are now living in a different EU state, the country to which you paid contributions toward your pension for the longest period becomes responsible for your healthcare.

Re: My complicated problem
 

If you are going to Spain for 3 months then you take your EHIC/GHIC to cover you if you are just looking for houses However if you find one and want permanent residence then you are going to have to apply for a Visa which has to be applied for from your home country

Re: My complicated problem
 

Thank you,
But my partner will have a Irish Passport?

Re: My complicated problem
 

_________________________________________-
A, "you may be entitled to state healthcare paid for by the UK?
B, "If you receive both a pension from the country you now live in and your UK State Pension, you cannot get an S1 form. This is because the country you live in will be responsible for your healthcare.
Hence confusion.....

Re: My complicated problem
 

A: is just in relation to requirements: You must be eligible to receive the UK state pension and have reached retirement age
B: That just means that if you are receiving a pension from Spain (the country you live) and from the UK, Spain would be responsible and you wouldn't get S1.
C: Would be if your wife previously worked in Ireland and the UK but is now living in Spain: The country to which you paid contributions toward your pension for the longest period becomes responsible for your healthcare.

Re: My complicated problem
 

__________________________________________________ ____
Thank you Moses.
Yes I will have full UK Gov Pension plus Private pension.
No pension from Spain.
My partner Macy has never worked in Ireland.
But when I apply to live in Spain will I need Private Health or will S1 be ok. We are both in very good health,no medication at all!

Re: My complicated problem
 

Medical insurance guidance for a NLV from the Manchester UK Consulate website - my italics:

1. Medical certificate: The applicant must be accredited to not suffer from any diseases that can have serious health consequences in accordance with the provisions of the International Health Regulations 2005. Must be legalized by means of a Hague Apostille Certificate and translated into Spanish *
   
2. Medical insurance with an insurance company authorised to operate in Spain valid for at least the first 12 months of stay in Spain. The British S1 form is also acceptable.
   

Re: My complicated problem
 

I posted last week that I had seen information indicating that S1 forms were now being accepted by the Spanish Consulates in the UK for health insurance purposes with visa applications (but unfortunately couldn't remember where I had read it), so thank you for posting this.

Re: My complicated problem
 

That’s good to know. It always used to be that way and it would be crazy to change it.

Re: My complicated problem
 

Oddly the London consulate do not mention the S1 and simply state:

"6. Public or private health insurance taken out by an insurance company authorised to operate in Spain."

http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consula...ES%20ES-EN.pdf

The 'Catch 22' is due to the fact that you can only register with INSS for healthcare with an S1 AFTER you have gained residency.

The visa is only permission to come to Spain where you then have to apply for residency within 30 days and for which you need to show medical cover so claiming the S1 is valid for that is putting the cart before the horse.

Does anyone know anybody who has gained their visa with an S1 AND then passed TIE muster in Spain with it?

Re: My complicated problem
 

I have been in touch with an immigration para-legal I know who has replied as follows:

"I have consulted with the Manchester Consulate and they have given me the cryptic response that an S1 is acceptable as long as it is registered already in Spain. Obviously it cannot be registered in Spain because you have to be resident to register it."

But it gets worse because she's also told me this:

"Those people who used S1s as proof of healthcare entitlement to apply for residency under the Withdrawal Agreement are now being told that they cannot register their S1s because they have to be dated after the residency was granted. What people do not realise is that Overseas Healthcare refuse to change the date on an S1. They are utterly obstinate about this and will only issue a new S1 if the INSS in Spain - who do not speak English - submit a form to them which, even when it has been sent, they seem to lose.

I have just won a battle with Overseas Healthcare about this. One lady waited a whole 13 months for Overseas Healthcare to agree to send her a new S1 with a date post residency and in the other case I actually wrote an official complaint on the man’s behalf and sent it to Boris Johnson. Two weeks later they sent him a new S1 which ended a 6 month impasse."

Given the above I'd want to see the precise details of that case which, remembering that this is Spanish autonomous region bureaucracy we're taking about, could amount to nothing more than a mistake or ill informed decision by a single operative at a particular registration office on a particular day.

Not forgetting also that it's not just the immigration meeting which counts but what happens with INSS afterwards!

Imagine someone with significant pre-existing health conditions being granted an NLV on the strength of an S1 then selling up in UK, moving to Spain, then TIE and S1 in hand being turned away by INSS AND refused private insurance, what is that person supposed to do, what could they do except pay privately which could easily be the road to bankruptcy.

On top of that would be the fact that lacking health cover of one sort or the other they would not even be legally resident.

This is really playing with peoples lives, both figuratively and potentially literally, and needs addressing from the top. Consulates are a function of central government so there can be no possible excuse for them giving out both incorrect and conflicting advice!

Re: My complicated problem
 

Yes, as I said earlier, my friend has just come here on an NLV with an S1. You are missing the point I think, over thinking the situation.... The GHIC covers you until you register the S1 and so you are covered by your UK contributions either way.

Re: My complicated problem
 

Phew ! I’m more confused than ever…..

Re: My complicated problem
 

I FEEL THE SAME... Confused!!!

Re: My complicated problem
 

I have naff all specific knowledge of Spain but AFAIK all EU countries are subject to the same WA principle.
And the above quote (IMHO) makes no sense because the WA is not about GRANTING residency. The WA confers the right to remain resident in the host country for a person was already exercising freedom of movement prior to the end of transition. In other words they were already resident in their host country; they did not have to apply to become resident, what they had to do was prove that they were resident. Their host country then CONFIRMS their status as resident, but their period of residency must, for them to be covered by the WA have commenced before the end of transition. If their residency began after 31.12.2020 then they are by definition not covered by the WA.
So I have no clue what the above person is going on about.

Re: My complicated problem
 

Imagine if someone got all their ducks in a row including the S1 and then the date on the S1 is before the date on the padron, which is probably the date that Spain would use as the start of residency.

Re: My complicated problem
 

But if that were the case, then they hadn't got all their ducks properly in a row had they.

Re: My complicated problem
 

Isn't that the great thing about bureaucracy? You think you've got everything sorted out then someone tells you you haven't.