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moving to spain on oct

moving to spain on oct

Old Aug 17th 2010, 2:17 pm
  #91  
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Default Re: moving to spain on oct

Originally Posted by cricketman
"Being Spanish" is not the point. And if you think being Spanish is riding a donkey through lemon groves then I am afraid that all hope is lost for you.

The following article is key reading for British parents in Spain!

http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6020962
Of course I dont, but sometimes this constant banging on about integration and spanish culture seems to be the ultimate conclusion!!!! I agree with the article. If my children had been younger I'd have sought out and put them into a decent spanish school, but at 11 and 13 it wouldnt have benefited their education - as for their integration?? They have spanish friends - my son has plenty of Spanish lads in his class at international school.

The majority of wealthy spanish around here send their children to international schools so that they can learn english and it seems that the poorer british families send their children to state school - its a real strange mixture thats beginning to form. Interestingly alot of the state schools (both primary and secondary) are now offering bilingual lessons for the Spanish - my daughters school do, but they only allow the spanish to be in these classes, so my daughter isnt eligible!!

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Old Aug 17th 2010, 2:19 pm
  #92  
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Default Re: moving to spain on oct

That´s an interesting article and most of the points I totally agree and have mentioned on this forum many times.

I don´t feel that integration is the only key to success for our children. I have really struggled here and feel an outsider. You can only go half way with many spanish people...it is a closed door often where families have their own busy lives to get on with.

I put myself in a similar way as Indian families who came to the UK in the 60s and didn´t speak English or "integrate"..and yet their kids grew up speaking English, doing well at school and going to University. Although the parents may not integrate..it is important that they instill in their children, that schooling and behaviour are important..it crosses culturally.

Last edited by manamama; Aug 17th 2010 at 2:23 pm.
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Old Aug 17th 2010, 2:35 pm
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Default Re: moving to spain on oct

Originally Posted by manamama
That´s an interesting article and most of the points I totally agree and have mentioned on this forum many times.

I don´t feel that integration is the only key to success for our children. I have really struggled here and feel an outsider. You can only go half way with many spanish people...it is a closed door often where families have their own busy lives to get on with.

I put myself in a similar way as Indian families who came to the UK in the 60s and didn´t speak English or "integrate"..and yet their kids grew up speaking English, doing well at school and going to University. Although the parents may not integrate..it is important that they instill in their children, that schooling and behaviour are important..it crosses culturally.
Yes absolutely, I think its about the parents having an open attitude and stressing that Spanish things are as important as English things.

Re, Spanish people not being open. I think Spanish people are closest to their extended family and their friends they grew up with and maybe the people they work with, like most people in the world, so to break through that is difficult.

Its easier in big cities like Madrid or London where people may live far from their families and so rely on friends for emotional support.
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Old Aug 17th 2010, 2:55 pm
  #94  
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Default Re: moving to spain on oct

Originally Posted by cricketman
I've said before that kids that grow up in a completely English speaking environment i.e. English only spoken at home, only watch UK TV, listen to English radio/music, don't discuss Spanish current affairs or sport etc will struggle at Spanish school.

Trying to pass exams and become part of a society that is not discussed at all at home is extremely tough. The biggest hurdle they need to overcome is one of attitude. If their parents think all things Spanish are not important, then why should they?

British parents in Spain have a duty to educate themselves about Spanish language and culture. This is the greatest gift they could give their children!
you're right - & I've said it many times too

so many of my kids English friends leave the country every holiday - & with the long summer break they all but forget how to speak Spanish by September

mine don't exclusively have Spanish speaking or English friends - they have a mix of both - but in the summer holidays they hang around pretty much exclusively with Spanish kids

we do watch Spanish tele - sometimes now (with TDT) we watch things in English though - House for example just doesn't work the same in Spanish!!

we don't speak Spanish at home - English will always be our first language - although they both read & write more naturally in Spanish (they can do both just as well in English - they just have to think a bit more about it)

however, when they have Spanish speaking friends around we all do speak Spanish - & sometimes if I'm trying to get their attention I have to!!
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Old Aug 17th 2010, 3:07 pm
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Default Re: moving to spain on oct

Originally Posted by lynnxa
you're right - & I've said it many times too

so many of my kids English friends leave the country every holiday - & with the long summer break they all but forget how to speak Spanish by September

mine don't exclusively have Spanish speaking or English friends - they have a mix of both - but in the summer holidays they hang around pretty much exclusively with Spanish kids

we do watch Spanish tele - sometimes now (with TDT) we watch things in English though - House for example just doesn't work the same in Spanish!!

we don't speak Spanish at home - English will always be our first language - although they both read & write more naturally in Spanish (they can do both just as well in English - they just have to think a bit more about it)

however, when they have Spanish speaking friends around we all do speak Spanish - & sometimes if I'm trying to get their attention I have to!!
Sounds perfectly healthy to me. No one has to forget speaking English or not to enjoy English things, but there has to be room for Spanish things too. Otherwise the kids will be in a right old mess.

Of course for those who dont want their kids to speak Spanish or have a future in Spain and send them to a purely English speaking school, that is fine too. For me it is very sad (why live in a country you dont want your children to live in?), but everyone has a right to choose.
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Old Aug 17th 2010, 3:09 pm
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Default Re: moving to spain on oct

Originally Posted by cricketman
Yes absolutely, I think its about the parents having an open attitude and stressing that Spanish things are as important as English things.

Re, Spanish people not being open. I think Spanish people are closest to their extended family and their friends they grew up with and maybe the people they work with, like most people in the world, so to break through that is difficult.

Its easier in big cities like Madrid or London where people may live far from their families and so rely on friends for emotional support.
I agree that many of the Spanish people I know are very close to their extended family/old friends but we've found that they're very happy to include us. It's a different way of doing things sometimes than I've known before but I like it. For example, I'm now used to the fact that if I've arranged to meet a friend for coffee or lunch and a natter, she might turn up with her niece, her daughter-in-law, her daughter-in-law's mother and her granddaughter! But, in return, when my friend goes to meet one of them for coffee, she'll often take me along! So we've slowly ended up with a wider circle of friends and more and more "invites". It seems it's a case of the more the merrier! I agree it may be easier as well with Spaniards who have moved away from their birthplace as they know what it is like to make a fresh start. By the way, we live in the South.
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Old Aug 17th 2010, 3:15 pm
  #97  
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Default Re: moving to spain on oct

[QUOTE/.The stats I found say there are 1.2 million students at Spanish unis compared to 1.9 million at UK unis which given the different populations (65 million in the UK vs 45 million in Spain) is a similar proportion.[/QUOTE]

The stats I found are as follows.

The number of UK students at UK universities fell from 1.97 million in 2007 to 1.96 million last year.

That is the first fall in numbers since they have been collected centrally.

UK differences.

The Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills points out that the 1% fall in UK students is accounted for by falls in British students at universities in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

There was no significant change in numbers of British students at England's universities between 2007 and 2008.

England's universities saw an overall 1% rise in students over the same period, although this is only when students from overseas are included.

While numbers of home students in the UK fell between 2007 and 2008, those coming from overseas rose by 4.8%.

This broke down to a 6% rise in students from other European Union countries (total of 112,150 in 2008) and a 4% rise in those from non EU countries (total 229,640).

The number of British part-time students in the UK fell 3% between 2007 and 2008, to 762,340.

Wales saw the biggest fall in part-time students from the UK (down 9%). In England, the fall was 3% and in Scotland and Northern Ireland, it was 4%.

These stats are for 2007/2008.

I may have misinterpreted what you have been saying but there seems to be more than a hint of negativity towards the standards of the British and the Americans which does not seem to me to quite match their achievements in the real world.

Perhaps you would rather we follow the methods of the Chinese whose parents pay to send their children to night school at the age of 3 or 4 where some of them are burnt out before they are 10.

I saw many of these little crocodiles of children all dressed in dark trousers and white shirts complete with brief cases, in Hong Kong, on their way to the schools.

I understand the same type of pressure is put on Japanese children.

Jim
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Old Aug 17th 2010, 3:21 pm
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Default Re: moving to spain on oct

Originally Posted by Bigger Jim
[QUOTE/.
I may have misinterpreted what you have been saying but there seems to be more than a hint of negativity towards the standards of the British and the Americans which does not seem to me to quite match their achievements in the real world.

Jim
No not at all. The standards at the top UK and US universities are the best in the world, most definitely

It is the cost of a university education in the UK and US that I object to. I feel education should be free. If university means people earn more later in life, then just increase the upper limit of income tax. Simple. But students shouldnt come put of uni with £40k worth of debts. Or worse, that their parents have to stump up $200k so they can go to Yale or Harvard.
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