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moving to spain from another eu country

moving to spain from another eu country

Old Jan 16th 2021, 7:23 pm
  #1  
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Default moving to spain from another eu country

I am a uk national with pre brexit residency in portugal does this offer any bonus to move to spain post brexit or are we in the same boat as the rest of the uk.?
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Old Jan 16th 2021, 7:44 pm
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Default Re: moving to spain from another eu country

Yes, it offers a bonus.

It affords you the opportunity, after having lived in Portugal for the requisite amount of time, to apply for Portuguese citizenship (for which you'll need to fulfill various criteria, including demonstration of competence in the language).

Once you have acquired Portuguese citizenship, you will have the same freedoms of movement under the same conditions as UK nationals had until 31st December 2020 and nationals of other EU member states, members of the EEA, and Switzerland still have.
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Old Jan 16th 2021, 8:33 pm
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Default Re: moving to spain from another eu country

Apart from getting Portuguese citizenship, you would be under the same rules as anyone else wanting Spanish residency after Brexit.
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Old Jan 16th 2021, 9:24 pm
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Default Re: moving to spain from another eu country

In short, there is no onward freedom of movement for UK citizens now resident in an EU state under the withdrawal agreement. It is possible there is a further negotiation with EU to create it, but it seems unlikely as EU would be reluctant to reopen citizens' rights and UK has nothing further to offer to EU citizens in return. AFAIK, UK citizens who are beneficiary of WA do not have right of onward freedom of movement under the Lisbon Treaty even after gaining permanent residency.
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Old Jan 16th 2021, 9:33 pm
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Default Re: moving to spain from another eu country

If you have more than five years under your belt, your residency in the new country will still be under the terms of the withdrawal agreement and you will be able to return to the previous country and continue with the previous permanent residency, again under the terms of the withdrawal agreement. source

Edit: this is the exact opposite of what Joppa is saying. It's something I read, but I guess it's one of those things that has to be looked into properly.

Last edited by DLC; Jan 16th 2021 at 9:36 pm.
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Old Jan 16th 2021, 10:01 pm
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Default Re: moving to spain from another eu country

Originally Posted by DLC
If you have more than five years under your belt, your residency in the new country will still be under the terms of the withdrawal agreement and you will be able to return to the previous country and continue with the previous permanent residency, again under the terms of the withdrawal agreement. source

Edit: this is the exact opposite of what Joppa is saying. It's something I read, but I guess it's one of those things that has to be looked into properly.
Yes, there have been some discussions on this issue during the transition period, but there is nothing in the WA itself or in the agreement reached on Christmas Eve actually specifying such rights. So the current position under law is British citizens who are beneficiaries of WA do not have rights of onward movement to another EU state.
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Old Jan 17th 2021, 8:21 am
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Default Re: moving to spain from another eu country

Onward movement was flagged up very early on as one of the key disadvantages for UK nats in EU with existing residency so I cant see that being changed. We left because we didn't like the EU so that must include free movement.
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Old Jan 17th 2021, 9:08 am
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Default Re: moving to spain from another eu country

I would not be surprised if this situation was not challenged by some group in the european courts now that the UK has left.
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Old Jan 17th 2021, 9:15 am
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Default Re: moving to spain from another eu country

I don't see that happening. Free movement within the EU is for EU citizens only. Brits are no longer EU citizens, so hard luck. The EU don't recognise "cake and eat it" requests.
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Old Jan 17th 2021, 9:55 am
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Default Re: moving to spain from another eu country

https://publications.parliament.uk/p...deucom/4/4.pdf

"What is not included in the citizens’ rights provisions

79.
The European Parliament, among others, has called for the citizens’ rights provisions to ensure that any documents securing residence rights should be issued free of charge; that EU citizens granted settled status in the UK should enjoy a lifelong right of return; and that UK nationals in the EU should be entitled to move freely between Member States (‘onward free movement’). These efforts have been unsuccessful. Under Article 18 of the Withdrawal Agreement charges for documents will be permissible, provided that they do not exceed those imposed on nationals of the host state for the issuance of similar documents (as noted above, such charges have been waived in the UK). Although the House of Commons Exiting the European Union Committee has proposed linking onward free movement rights for UK citizens to a right of unlimited return for EU citizens in the UK, the Withdrawal Agreement addresses neither issue In the event, any discussion of onward free movement rights will now have to form part of the negotiations on future relations.

Conclusions
80. One of the Government’s primary aims in negotiating Brexit has been a desire to end free movement of people. A necessary consequence has been that the citizens’ rights guaranteed under the Withdrawal Agreement fall short in some respects of those enjoyed during the UK’s EU membership. Most notably, for UK citizens in the EU, onward free movement rights are not guaranteed.

Last edited by EuroTrash; Jan 17th 2021 at 9:58 am.
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Old Jan 17th 2021, 10:23 am
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Default Re: moving to spain from another eu country

The long and short of it is, if you want to enjoy the rights of free movement in the future you will need to obtain citizenship of the EU country you reside in. That will mean committing yourself to 10 years residence in Spain learning the language and doing the exam. I guess somethings never come for free!
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Old Jan 17th 2021, 10:49 am
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Default Re: moving to spain from another eu country

Originally Posted by Chipmonk
The long and short of it is, if you want to enjoy the rights of free movement in the future you will need to obtain citizenship of the EU country you reside in. That will mean committing yourself to 10 years residence in Spain learning the language and doing the exam. I guess somethings never come for free!
In theory yes but those with cash won't have a problem, or let's say those who were going to spend 500k on property in the first place https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/eu-...n-golden-visa/

Last edited by Moses2013; Jan 17th 2021 at 10:51 am.
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Old Jan 17th 2021, 11:12 am
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Default Re: moving to spain from another eu country

Originally Posted by Moses2013
In theory yes but those with cash won't have a problem, or let's say those who were going to spend 500k on property in the first place https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/eu-...n-golden-visa/
No they won't have a problem, they never did. Most countries' doors are open to those who want to invest, and why not? Attacting investment is something countries aim to do, it's good for the economy.
But that is not the same as "free movement".
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Old Jan 17th 2021, 12:05 pm
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Default Re: moving to spain from another eu country

So... I guess the only advantage starting from Portugal with permanent residency and applying elsewhere in the EU for residency would be you could return to Portugal within five years and continue with Portuguese permanent residency under the withdrawal agreement conditions.
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Old Jan 17th 2021, 12:28 pm
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Default Re: moving to spain from another eu country

Originally Posted by EuroTrash
No they won't have a problem, they never did. Most countries' doors are open to those who want to invest, and why not? Attacting investment is something countries aim to do, it's good for the economy.
But that is not the same as "free movement".
Investment is one thing but buying property doesn't mean that person is better for the economy, although that's a different story. It's still a gateway to free movement:

Holders of the temporary resident permit through the Golden Visa Program will be granted access throughout Europe’s Schengen zone without any visa requirements.

Further, they can stay within the Schengen region for a duration of 90 days in every six-month period.

Another advantage of the Golden Visa Program is that they don’t require a mínimum stay in the Spanish territory. There is no obligatory physical residence in the country as with other similar programs.

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