Moving to Spain
#106
Re: Moving to Spain
That's simply not true. There's no need whatsoever to have a PGCE to teach English to adults. That's not what PGCEs are for. To work for a reputable language school anywhere in the world, you need a degree, a CELTA (a perfectly 'valid' teaching certification), possibly a DELTA, experience, good references and most importantly, you need to be able to teach.
The industry in the UK is not good for teachers, because of the sheer numbers of highly qualified, native teachers there. The standard of teaching is often very high, but not backed up with job security and good pay. Elsewhere, the conditions and pay can be decent. I had interviews at lots of schools when I arrived in Spain and the vast majority offered full time contracts and holiday pay. I have a good CV, good references and qualifications. Perhaps some chancer with a weekend online TEFL certificate and no experience would end up working in a horrible school, but there are plenty of decent jobs for serious teachers.
A lot of people seem to think TEFL is walking into a classroom, completely unprepared and having a chat about what you got up to at the weekend. Tomorrow, I have an in-company Business English class in the morning and a CPE preparation course in the afternoon. It's not backpacker work.
The industry in the UK is not good for teachers, because of the sheer numbers of highly qualified, native teachers there. The standard of teaching is often very high, but not backed up with job security and good pay. Elsewhere, the conditions and pay can be decent. I had interviews at lots of schools when I arrived in Spain and the vast majority offered full time contracts and holiday pay. I have a good CV, good references and qualifications. Perhaps some chancer with a weekend online TEFL certificate and no experience would end up working in a horrible school, but there are plenty of decent jobs for serious teachers.
A lot of people seem to think TEFL is walking into a classroom, completely unprepared and having a chat about what you got up to at the weekend. Tomorrow, I have an in-company Business English class in the morning and a CPE preparation course in the afternoon. It's not backpacker work.
But there are always people who know better, even though they've never been near a classroom since they left school ...
#107
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 101
Re: Moving to Spain
#108
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Living in a good place
Posts: 8,824
Re: Moving to Spain
TEFL is mainly and probably always will be a job for backpackers and transients
#109
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 41
Re: Moving to Spain
I didn't meet many backpackers when I was teaching in the European institutions in Brussels, nor in any of my other workplaces. In one of them, I was the only teacher in the room without an Oxbridge degree.
You clearly know better, though, so go ahead and think your prejudiced thoughts and carry on spreading false information around the Internet. The more people who hold your view, the more decent jobs around for me.
#110
squeaky clean
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Spain 4th feb 08 - October 11, now flits batck and forth from sunny Worthing
Posts: 1,576
Re: Moving to Spain
Says a lot about the kind of people you know then, doesn't it?
I didn't meet many backpackers when I was teaching in the European institutions in Brussels, nor in any of my other workplaces. In one of them, I was the only teacher in the room without an Oxbridge degree.
You clearly know better, though, so go ahead and think your prejudiced thoughts and carry on spreading false information around the Internet. The more people who hold your view, the more decent jobs around for me.
I didn't meet many backpackers when I was teaching in the European institutions in Brussels, nor in any of my other workplaces. In one of them, I was the only teacher in the room without an Oxbridge degree.
You clearly know better, though, so go ahead and think your prejudiced thoughts and carry on spreading false information around the Internet. The more people who hold your view, the more decent jobs around for me.
Jo xxx
#112
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 41
Re: Moving to Spain
The trouble with TEFL is other people's ignorance, to be honest. Sure, there are some 'backpacker' type TEFL teachers who buy a weekend course on the internet and teach 50 kids at a time in Thailand - that doesn't mean all of TEFL is like that. There are less qualified and less experienced people in EVERY profession. I could have gone and worked in a fee-paying/ independent school in England when I was 21, having done just my first degree. I'm sure that's 'proper' teaching in your opinion, yet I was much younger, much less educated and much less experienced.
The PGCE doesn't make you a 'proper' teacher. It's a postgraduate course designed to teach you how to teach kids. There's no need to do it if you're going to teach English to adults. A lot of what's taught in the PGCE doesn't apply to adults.
#113
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,368
Re: Moving to Spain
Saw this in another forum, this family seem to have got it right and loving their life in Spain. Nice video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=osofly_Prxg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=osofly_Prxg
#114
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 487
Re: Moving to Spain
Excellent - good grasp of the language too - I would be very surprised if she achieved this in 3 years!
#115
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,749
Re: Moving to Spain
She speaks good Spanish but is quite deliberate rather than very fluid. Anyway, it is a very good level and one that should be achievable after living here for 6 years - and they are very much an "integrated" family!
#116
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 176
Re: Moving to Spain
"Proper teachers go to uni and study hard" - really? Wow, I studied my TEFL at University...and it wasn't easy. In fact teachers with PGCEs, the university, studying hard qualification you seem to be talking about, found the course far harder...
To clarify things TEFL is not something that anyone with a bit of money can do. For a start, you have to have a degree to do it. Of course there are phoney weekend courses that you can attend, which produce teachers which desperate schools that are not accredited or affiliated to the British Council, RSA etc, would employ. But these courses are much like degrees that you can buy online without ever having entered a lecture hall. If that's what you want to waste your money on, so be it, but you'll only ever be able to teach children games or desperate housewives some basic grammar, like Jo's friends. Once again, there are good and bad schools employing people with good and not so good qualifications.
But this has nothing to do with PGCE qualifications. I have taught Business English to the Dutch Minister of Defence. If I'd turned up at my language school with a PGCE in Secondary school level English, knowing how to teach Shakespeare's sonnets, or Primary education, I'm not sure my employer would have been keen on sending me to prepare an MP on delivering presentations in English to lecture halls of hundreds of European MPs.
And as for the hallowed PGCE, when I did my TEFL course, at University, there were two PGCE qualified teachers, who arrogantly thought they would sail through the course that would allow them more kudos in teaching in international schools. One of them failed the course, the other got the lowest grade, which just allowed them to pass... and shuffled off back to their Secondary school classroom, humiliated at the appalling lessons they had delivered.
I've seen primary school teachers in action nowadays, spending mornings reading with my children's class. My children attend international schools, as we travel a lot. Most teachers are organised, lovely, welcoming teachers. But would I want them delivering lessons on a Business English level to adult clients? Never.
I've heard of a primary school teacher at my children's British school, grab a struggling child's school work, drag them to the front of the class, and use them as an example of how the rest of the class shouldn't study. That's actually cruel and a failure to manage. I cannot imagine someone like that being capable of handling a class of business men.
Some school teachers are lucky to have a set curriculum to follow, as given space to use their own ideas, I'm sure they may actually melt and cry. They follow a set regime of curriculum set lessons, which from one school to the next have an identical flavour and content. A good TEFLA teacher can deliver lessons to students from a wide variety of backgrounds, needs and levels, changing course content and structure accordingly.
Teaching English as a Foreign Language is not a walk in the park. The poor qualifications that you can buy online or receive after a weekend course give TEFL a bad name. But those courses would never get you a job in a good school. And if you did manage to blag your way into one, you'd be screwed the minute you had to stand up in front of a classroom of politicians, CEOs or Project Managers.
Stop bad-mouthing an industry all of you negative, aggressive people know nothing about. Go back to criticising Spain and your neighbours and leave the successful teachers to their jobs.
Man, this forum is full of nasty people.
#117
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Living in a good place
Posts: 8,824
Re: Moving to Spain
Teaching English as a Foreign Language is not a walk in the park. The poor qualifications that you can buy online or receive after a weekend course give TEFL a bad name. But those courses would never get you a job in a good school. And if you did manage to blag your way into one, you'd be screwed the minute you had to stand up in front of a classroom of politicians, CEOs or Project Managers.
Well, we agree. What I was refering to. Seems everyone and their Mother has these qualifications () on the CDS. I did some teaching when I was at Sevilla Uni...I was crap actually, having a Spanish degree and English as a first language in no way qualifies someone to teach English
Well, we agree. What I was refering to. Seems everyone and their Mother has these qualifications () on the CDS. I did some teaching when I was at Sevilla Uni...I was crap actually, having a Spanish degree and English as a first language in no way qualifies someone to teach English
#118
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 41
Re: Moving to Spain
I'm loving reading this. I'm loving the wonderful passive aggression that some people on this forum are so fond of using. I keep asking myself if all this pent up aggression is some kind of envy, because someone else has found success in doing something that is assumed to be too easy.
But this has nothing to do with PGCE qualifications. I have taught Business English to the Dutch Minister of Defence. If I'd turned up at my language school with a PGCE in Secondary school level English, knowing how to teach Shakespeare's sonnets, or Primary education, I'm not sure my employer would have been keen on sending me to prepare an MP on delivering presentations in English to lecture halls of hundreds of European MPs.
And as for the hallowed PGCE, when I did my TEFL course, at University, there were two PGCE qualified teachers, who arrogantly thought they would sail through the course that would allow them more kudos in teaching in international schools. One of them failed the course, the other got the lowest grade, which just allowed them to pass... and shuffled off back to their Secondary school classroom, humiliated at the appalling lessons they had delivered.
Stop bad-mouthing an industry all of you negative, aggressive people know nothing about. Go back to criticising Spain and your neighbours and leave the successful teachers to their jobs.
Man, this forum is full of nasty people.
Man, this forum is full of nasty people.
#119
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Living in a good place
Posts: 8,824
Re: Moving to Spain
Why would it be envy Teachers jobs are not exactly the pinnacle of success are they. I thought it people did those jobs cos they couldn't crack it elsewhere in a real job
#120
Banned
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 431
Re: Moving to Spain
Crikey, I am not reading the entire thread that for some reason has become a teacher discussion group of some sort?
I usually live in Italy but had 6 weeks in Sevilla end of August into October
Bluntly, Spain is not a patch on Italy for me anyway.
There is so much poverty and its in your face poverty, we had people going through the bins daily lots of people
Compared to Italy, there are many drunks
Compared to Italy the food although way better than the UK is not as good
I was in Sevilla which has some lovely sights but no sea
The places near the sea are tacky and whitewash is god awful to look at
Saw some ghost towns clearly just abandoned.
I cannot see why anyone would want to live there if they had been to my part of the world, its a bit of a slum. I am talking about Sevilla,malaga, cadiz and most places in between..
Oh yes I almost forgot
Hire car was PUSHED into an illegal spot and towed 340euro!
The car on another day also had its stereo nicked!
Italy is better in every way EXCEPT there is more litter here!
ciao
I usually live in Italy but had 6 weeks in Sevilla end of August into October
Bluntly, Spain is not a patch on Italy for me anyway.
There is so much poverty and its in your face poverty, we had people going through the bins daily lots of people
Compared to Italy, there are many drunks
Compared to Italy the food although way better than the UK is not as good
I was in Sevilla which has some lovely sights but no sea
The places near the sea are tacky and whitewash is god awful to look at
Saw some ghost towns clearly just abandoned.
I cannot see why anyone would want to live there if they had been to my part of the world, its a bit of a slum. I am talking about Sevilla,malaga, cadiz and most places in between..
Oh yes I almost forgot
Hire car was PUSHED into an illegal spot and towed 340euro!
The car on another day also had its stereo nicked!
Italy is better in every way EXCEPT there is more litter here!
ciao