Modelo 720 self completion?
 

Hi all,
Thinking we may need to complete the Modelo 720 and how do we go about doing this ourselves as our situation, if we are eligible, is quite straightforward with no savings just some equity in a property.

So, rather than get a gestor/ accountant to do it, can we do it ourselves and if so how?

Thanks

DTD

Re: Modelo 720 self completion?
 

Sure you can do it yourself and I understand that many on here do.

Penny wise and pound foolish to do it yourself, if you ask me!

The large fines are a thing of the past following the recent ruling but you still could trigger an investigation by the Spanish tax man which will cost you shed loads as you will have to employ an accountant to deal with the multiple enquiries coming from the spanish tax man.

As I said there are a few on here who just submit the same form every year for a property they have in the UK, so let's see what they advise.

Re: Modelo 720 self completion?
 

Any one here actually done it themselves, as in do you need a cl@ve etc to be able to input the relevant details.

Re: Modelo 720 self completion?
 

You can make an appointment with the tax office and do it there in real time, you'll likely need to speak pretty good Spanish or have a translator though.

Re: Modelo 720 self completion?
 

Are you sure this service is available for completion of the Modelo 720? I am aware that appointments are made available between certain dates every year to have the annual Declaración de la Renta completed (and have used the service several times) but have never seen it offfered for the Modelo 720, nor do any of the websites I've looked at which give instructions about how to complete it mention this.

Re: Modelo 720 self completion?
 

Yes, according to the Agencia Tributaria website, you would need a digital certificate or a cl@ve PIN.
https://sede.agenciatributaria.gob.e...tos/GI34.shtml

My husband and I both complete our own tax returns online, but have not tried doing a Modelo 720.

Re: Modelo 720 self completion?
 

If it is simply property it is very simple to do. You don't need to do it every year only if their is a change to the assest you declare. The house won't change in value as its the purchase price you submit converted to euros at correct rate. If jointly owned then you submit the total value but show the percentage owned by you. You do it online from the agencia trubtara site and you can change the online form to English. Where the 720 is difficult is shares or similar. Property and say simple nest egg in savings over 50,000 euros is really straight forward.
Here is some info on the 720
https://www.citizensadvice.org.es/fa...he-modelo-720/

Re: Modelo 720 self completion?
 

Interesting quote from the website above: "Note you only have to report the Groups in which your assets exceed the reporting limit. With regard to property the value is the purchase of the property, not the current value."

Wonder how this applies to property that is acquired through gifting before you move to Spain and have to do the 720. Since it cost you nothing... does it need to be listed since current value is of no importance?

Re: Modelo 720 self completion?
 

Yes that's correct. I have no idea how one would value a property if inherited, its a good point.

Re: Modelo 720 self completion?
 

I imagine the value declared for probate, which determines inheritance tax.

Re: Modelo 720 self completion?
 

I have just completed my first 720 (via a local accountant and tax advisor) and property can be complicated if inherited or held in trust etc.
My fathers house is in trust to me and my sister and I had to declare the value at purchase date and provide a current valuation as of 31/12/2021
As I am only due 50% of it they still listed the full value but noted the split with my sister and father being Uk residents.
If you will inherit then you need not declare until the time you do so. A trust basically means I already own it even though I didn't pay for it.

With regards to pensions. Be careful if doing it yourself depending on the type you have.

My pension fund is in a Uk wrapper with Transact and is spread across various cash, property and shares, even though none of them are more than €50000 the accountant suggested that they all have be individually listed just in case one does go over the amount. But as I am drawing it, hopefully that will never happen..
All of mine are in fixed categories and the wrapper doesn't buy or sell, the investment just sits there doing what it will day to day.

If your wrapper has had any share dealings in the previous tax year you will have to include all the gains in the normal tax return.

As all the 720 does, is report overseas moneys it makes no sense to deceive the Spanish tax office as according to the accountant, they may already know what you have, they are just waiting for you to confirm it.
We also had to list the premium bonds even though we don't have over €50k in those either, just because my pension holds an amount in cash as well.

For info the accountant is Spanish and has 25 years of experience with the Spanish tax system.
He has also had clients who didn't disclose everything get fined which is why he now asks for everything and gets you to sign a waiver.
But thats the problem with rich buggers, always trying to save a penny even if it costs them hundreds further along the line...

Also items such as high value jewellery, silver and gold bullion, classic cars and boats DO NOT need to be declared.

Re: Modelo 720 self completion?
 

Thanks Barriej

Re: Modelo 720 self completion?
 

I have an ISA with shares in it and also a separate share trading account.

Every individual share needs to be itemised on the 720. Whoever holds your various investments should give you a end of year value for each share and this is what is used in the 720.

I am meticulous to double check every item of infomation in the 720 with the year end information you get from whoever you hold your investments with.

You can simply pass all the information you have onto the accounts so they populate the 720 for you but at the end of the day you have to approve it and if there are any errors in it they you are the one that will potentially face a investigation. From recent press reports the fines appear to be a thing of the past. I have come across simply typos and errors when I have checked the 720s done by the accountants in the past.

Re: Modelo 720 self completion?
 

Honestly you shouldnt be doing tax returns or 720s without at least some help. The forms are incredibly difficult and most spanish have an assesor to help as codes change. Would you recommend a non English speaking immigrant fill out a uk tax return? ( not that they really exist as you have to speak English to a basic level to be a UK resident now)

Re: Modelo 720 self completion?
 

First time you file I agree and the 720 should for most of us be a one time operation only.

But general tax return can be done if you have the previous years to hand and again your situation hasn't changed.
For me I will let the accountants and tax advisors do this year (for 2021 and next) as my income from the pension has increased.
After that I will probably do my own as Ive fixed my pension drawdown and will only have whatever 'winnings' I may get from the premium bonds to declare.
But as I hold so few these days I might just cash them in and move the money here.
So future returns will be the same or very similar.
Once I reach OAP time I will then go back to the accountant to get them to file as I will have a few things to change..

Although it depends on the ongoing costs of course.

Re: Modelo 720 self completion?
 

How much is it currently costing you to have your accountant do everything? Are we talking more like €100-200 or several hundred Euros?

Re: Modelo 720 self completion?
 

The 720 costs around €180 to €240 depending on the amount of work they have to do. As its hopefully a one time thing thats Ok for me.
Standard tax returns for the pair of us is €120. Which to me is not bad seeing as the accountant in the Uk we used for our personal and the business returns (including vat) worked out around £800 a year.

The company I use have so far helped us with NIE, Residency, Driving Licence exchange, buying the flat, Non res tax returns and they are available at any time if I have questions. I will use them to do our wills when we decide to do them.
And once here five years we will use them for our permanent residency stuff.

Don't know if the figures are expensive but Im happy with them as my level of spanish is not high enough yet to consider doing them myself.

Re: Modelo 720 self completion?
 

I decided to throw caution to the winds and have a go at doing my first ever Modelo 720, as it is a very simple one involving only two bank accounts. I'd worked out the closing balances and average quarterly balance for the final quarter of 2023 in advance, and got together all the other information required, having read everything I could find about what was needed. Being extra careful to input everything correctly, and pressing the validate key to look for anything I might have missed before confirming, signing and sending, it took just over 20 minutes.

Re: Modelo 720 self completion?
 

I did the same Lynn 4 years ago . Last year I had to remove one ISA account as the interest was so poor. You just go back into your record and close it. I have to add the new account I opened this year. Its not difficult to do yourself as can be done in English. So long as one pays tax on interest or profit I can't see the issue.

Re: Modelo 720 self completion?
 

Thanks, Bob. I know I will have to do an additional one next year as I intend to open a new offshore account very shortly (my current savings account only pays a decent rate of interest up to a certain level and then it drops by almost half - always seems the wrong way round to me, as I'd expect a higher interest rate to be paid on a larger balance, but it is what it is). I guess by adding the new account and amending the balance in the existing account AEAT will be able to see where the money in the new account came from (the difference will be more than €20k), As you say, as I've always declared the interest on my account and paid Spanish tax on it, I can't see an issue either. I quite like learning how to do something new anyway.

Re: Modelo 720 self completion?
 

I do both the Modelo 720 and Declaración de la Renta myself.

The argument that it's penny-wise and pound-foolish to do Modelo 720 or the Declaración de la Renta yourself doesn't necessarily hold true, in my opinion.

When you use a gestor/abogado etc instead of doing it yourself, you are making the assumption that they will do a good job. That's a pretty big assumption to make in Spain.
If you have a solid recommendation from a trusted source, then it would make sense, otherwise beware.

I asked some basic financial questions to more than one abogado with a good reputation (e.g. treatment of ISA / equalisation payment accounting) and their answers showed that they had no idea.
If you employ one, they'll send through a questionaire for you to fill in....which is basically the same questionaire that'd you be filling in directly on the Hacienda website anyway.
Then they just copy and paste it (or their interns do maybe....)

DIY is the way to do it, but if you're not comfortable with computers and/or personal finance, finding a family member or close friend who is, may be a good alternative.