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-   -   Masks - Change of rules in Valencia (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/masks-change-rules-valencia-933848/)

spainrico Jul 18th 2020 11:53 am

Masks - Change of rules in Valencia
 
New rules see here - https://www.levante-emv.com/comunita...o/2032642.html

Google translation:-

The mask will be mandatory at all times in the Community
The Minister of Health, Ana Barceló, announces the expansion of the use of the mask after detecting that cases among people between 20 and 40 years of age have quadrupled in recent days

The Minister of Public Health Ana Barceló has announced at a press conference this morning that the use of the mask is going to be mandatory throughout the Valencian Community for people over six years old, even if the safety distance of one and a half meters is maintained. Barceló explained that the profile of those infected has changed throughout the week and in recent days the number of infections in young people between 20 and 40 years of age has multiplied by four, mainly due to nightlife.

The mask will be mandatory in all areas except beaches, swimming pools and natural areas and for everyone except for children under 6 years of age or people with respiratory problems. Barceló clarifies that surgical and hygienic ones must be used and that those with respiratory valves are not allowed except for work reasons. Also, remember that from now on it will be mandatory to wear masks on the terraces when you are not consuming. The capacity of the terraces is maintained at 75% and the maximum occupancy will be 20 people per table. In nightlife, meanwhile, the capacity limitation remains at a third.

Barceló has quantified in 20 the number of outbreaks that have contact monitoring to be able to perimeter them as soon as possible, including the Gandia or Santa Pola outbreak. Regarding the first, the councilor has ordered the closure of all nightlife in the city to curb the spread of the virus. Regarding the Santa Pola outbreak, he explained that an extensive study will be done to contact all those who were in a local nightclub on July 10, 11 and 12 where an outbreak that already affects five persons. In this sense, it has ensured that it will act in this way in similar circumstances. "If we have to close the nightlife, it will be done. We have to make them safe spaces."

Barceló has asked not to forget everything we have been through, all the work that the health person has done in ICUs, in hospitals and not to forget all those who are no longer there. She recalled that there is still a long way to go until the vaccine is available and that is why she asks "everyone to be responsible".

johnnyone Jul 18th 2020 1:49 pm

Re: Masks - Change of rules in Valencia
 
Just in time for our arrival next week.:thumbdown:

Notdunroamin Jul 18th 2020 3:28 pm

Re: Masks - Change of rules in Valencia
 
Did anybody honestly think it was going to be any different.

The virus is still amongst us and we can't afford to relax our defences.

Pulaski Jul 18th 2020 4:10 pm

Re: Masks - Change of rules in Valencia
 

Originally Posted by Notdunroamin (Post 12883637)
Did anybody honestly think it was going to be any different.

The virus is still amongst us and we can't afford to relax our defences.

Agreed 100%. .... Anyone who stops wearing a mask as soon as the rules "allow" you to not wear a mask, is an idiot.

Ditto anyone visiting an area where they are likely to come within 10ft of someone else, indoors or out, and is not wearing a mask.

Mustard Jul 19th 2020 10:43 am

Re: Masks - Change of rules in Valencia
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 12883657)
Agreed 100%. .... Anyone who stops wearing a mask as soon as the rules "allow" you to not wear a mask, is an idiot.

Ditto anyone visiting an area where they are likely to come within 10ft of someone else, indoors or out, and is not wearing a mask.


I think that these 'idiots' are people who are taking a more nuanced view of the situation.

In Britain, and much of the rest of the west, keeping a safe distance from others is the principle which guides infection control. But in Japan and other parts of Asia the messaging is more sophisticated. Japan’s “Three Cs’ warn people to avoid Closed spaces (with poor ventilation); Crowded places (with many people nearby); and Close-contact settings (such as close conversations). Then, crucially, it adds: "The risk of clusters is particularly high when the 'Three Cs' overlap.

The lack of infections resulting from mass protests and street parties etc. in the UK seems to support the idea that infection outdoors is unlikely. I would feel more nervous wearing a mask in a bar or restaurant than walking without one in the street.




Chipmonk Jul 19th 2020 10:48 am

Re: Masks - Change of rules in Valencia
 

Originally Posted by Mustard (Post 12883950)
I think that these 'idiots' are people who are taking a more nuanced view of the situation.

In Britain, and much of the rest of the west, keeping a safe distance from others is the principle which guides infection control. But in Japan and other parts of Asia the messaging is more sophisticated. Japan’s “Three Cs’ warn people to avoid Closed spaces (with poor ventilation); Crowded places (with many people nearby); and Close-contact settings (such as close conversations). Then, crucially, it adds: "The risk of clusters is particularly high when the 'Three Cs' overlap.

The lack of infections resulting from mass protests and street parties etc. in the UK seems to support the idea that infection outdoors is unlikely. I would feel more nervous wearing a mask in a bar or restaurant than walking without one in the street.

However, Hong Kong is now reporting a new outbreak which is believed to be linked with the increased activity of street protests and in Spain some outbreaks are linked to bottellon.

johnnyone Jul 19th 2020 12:25 pm

Re: Masks - Change of rules in Valencia
 
I only wear a mask where it is compulsory. I'm not really convinced of their effectiveness especially in open areas. Then we have the problem of disposal. I have seen masks discarded by the roadside which may pose a bigger health risk.
What I really don't get and I have seen this, are the morbidly obese, some also smoking, wearing masks and gloves when not compulsory. If they are that concerned about their health, they should lose weight and stop smoking.

missile Jul 19th 2020 12:54 pm

Re: Masks - Change of rules in Valencia
 

Originally Posted by johnnyone (Post 12884010)
I only wear a mask where it is compulsory. I'm not really convinced of their effectiveness especially in open areas. Then we have the problem of disposal. I have seen masks discarded by the roadside which may pose a bigger health risk.
What I really don't get and I have seen this, are the morbidly obese, some also smoking, wearing masks and gloves when not compulsory. If they are that concerned about their health, they should lose weight and stop smoking.

Nice of you to articulate your caring for others :-)

bob_bob Jul 19th 2020 3:03 pm

Re: Masks - Change of rules in Valencia
 
I'm a UK radio ham and part time expat in normal times. The last few months I've (as usual) talked to many many 'euro' hams and if conditions are nice and clear covid will often come into the chat. I can honestly say I've not heard one, not a single one, complain about masks but....I've heard a lot of UK hams moaning and whining about being forced to wear masks, to have to social distance, that masks don't work bla bla bla. There are moaners in every country but crikey the UK seems to have more than its fare share :rolleyes:

Won't kill you to wear a mask and it may stop you infecting another person...just my pennies worth. I'm a retired nurse and have been wearing a mask and at times a face shield since the beginning of the pandemic hitting the UK, just makes sense to use them IMHO.

dougal03 Jul 20th 2020 12:50 pm

Re: Masks - Change of rules in Valencia
 
I absolutely agree about wearing a mask.But what can be done about the situation I see almost each time I come back to my apartment?I am,as usual in a mask & I use a disposal glove whenever opening/closing the lift door.On reaching my floor & exiting the lift I see Spanish,none wearing masks,standing around chatting away to neighbours,often includes the cleaner, some with their usual retinue of youngsters. No one outside the building can see this & life it seems can carry on as in the past.No wonder there have been grave concerns about the spread of the virus in places like the Midlands where multi-occupancy of houses has been suggested for the spread.I am well aware of Spanish family units as my grandchild is Spanish so I am not pointing at any particular group as being the main culprits,just writing down what I have seen.Perhaps this also is why this caused the great numbers in Italy which has a similar lifestyle.

johnnyone Jul 20th 2020 1:22 pm

Re: Masks - Change of rules in Valencia
 
The UK government doesn't appear to have a clue what is right regarding the wearing of masks (or most other matters come to that) with contradictory statements being made by it all the time. That leaves me to form my own views based upon the conflicting evidence/opinions.
As far as I can tell the extended use of masks in Valencia comes about as a result of the re-opening of nightclubs in Gandia where a bunch of 20-40 yr olds became infected. I can fully understand that the clubs are shut down and masks are to be worn when social distancing is not possible. However I still fail to see the benefit in making masks compulsory in open areas where social distancing is possible as the spike only occurred after the clubs opened and in confined areas.
It seems to me that the wearing of masks at all times even where social distancing is possible may even have a detrimental effect. From what I have read the virus is quickly dispersed and neutralised in the open, especially in the heat. All the wearing of masks does in these circumstances is act as a collection point for the virus that is then transmitted to other surfaces etc when removed or disposed of.
There is also the point that wearing masks may give people a false sense of security. Whilst I only wear a mask where compulsory I do social distance as best I can as I can see the benefit in that.
I follow what the rules are even if I don't agree with them but that doesn't make them right.



Chipmonk Jul 20th 2020 1:54 pm

Re: Masks - Change of rules in Valencia
 

Originally Posted by johnnyone (Post 12884553)
The UK government doesn't appear to have a clue what is right regarding the wearing of masks (or most other matters come to that) with contradictory statements being made by it all the time. That leaves me to form my own views based upon the conflicting evidence/opinions.
As far as I can tell the extended use of masks in Valencia comes about as a result of the re-opening of nightclubs in Gandia where a bunch of 20-40 yr olds became infected. I can fully understand that the clubs are shut down and masks are to be worn when social distancing is not possible. However I still fail to see the benefit in making masks compulsory in open areas where social distancing is possible as the spike only occurred after the clubs opened and in confined areas.
It seems to me that the wearing of masks at all times even where social distancing is possible may even have a detrimental effect. From what I have read the virus is quickly dispersed and neutralised in the open, especially in the heat. All the wearing of masks does in these circumstances is act as a collection point for the virus that is then transmitted to other surfaces etc when removed or disposed of.
There is also the point that wearing masks may give people a false sense of security. Whilst I only wear a mask where compulsory I do social distance as best I can as I can see the benefit in that.
I follow what the rules are even if I don't agree with them but that doesn't make them right.


I think you are right. I very much doubt wearing masks in the streets as actually doing much to prevent contagions and especially if you are suggesting that being completely alone on hill but without a mask is a crime. However, the local authorities feel they have to be seen to do some9to reassure the inhabitants hence compulsory masks wearing by all. The outbreak in Gandia and Grenada were enclosed discos where presumably there was little chance of people respecting hygienic requirements. I very much doubt toilets were cleaned after each use, plus youngsters tend to pass drinks around hence more infectious routes. The fact that they are still putting up posters advertising big club events in the coming days in various toursis towns suggests thd authorities are too scared to intervene and rather pass all the responsibility of upholding the rules on to club owners who cant possibly ensure the required levels of safety

bob_bob Jul 20th 2020 2:26 pm

Re: Masks - Change of rules in Valencia
 

Originally Posted by johnnyone (Post 12884553)
The UK government doesn't appear to have a clue what is right regarding the wearing of masks (or most other matters come to that) with contradictory statements being made by it all the time. That leaves me to form my own views based upon the conflicting evidence/opinions.
As far as I can tell the extended use of masks in Valencia comes about as a result of the re-opening of nightclubs in Gandia where a bunch of 20-40 yr olds became infected. I can fully understand that the clubs are shut down and masks are to be worn when social distancing is not possible. However I still fail to see the benefit in making masks compulsory in open areas where social distancing is possible as the spike only occurred after the clubs opened and in confined areas.
It seems to me that the wearing of masks at all times even where social distancing is possible may even have a detrimental effect. From what I have read the virus is quickly dispersed and neutralised in the open, especially in the heat. All the wearing of masks does in these circumstances is act as a collection point for the virus that is then transmitted to other surfaces etc when removed or disposed of.
There is also the point that wearing masks may give people a false sense of security. Whilst I only wear a mask where compulsory I do social distance as best I can as I can see the benefit in that.
I follow what the rules are even if I don't agree with them but that doesn't make them right.

My favorite quote of the day is "Because your offended does not mean your right"
Just wear a mask, ain't going to kill you.

Pulaski Jul 20th 2020 5:25 pm

Re: Masks - Change of rules in Valencia
 

Originally Posted by johnnyone (Post 12884553)
..... All the wearing of masks does in these circumstances is act as a collection point for the virus that is then transmitted to other surfaces etc when removed or disposed of. .....

If that is a reasonable concern, then the mask is capturing virus particles that would otherwise have been inhaled/ exhaled, (which is surely a good thing, so long as the used mask is disposed of apropriately). ..... Which brings me to the point which has often been repeated in many sources I have read in both the US and UK, and going back as far as March, that the primary benefit to wearing a mask is that everyone else is protected by your mask, and you are protected by everyone else wearing a mask. Those opposed to masks seem to be universally ignorant of this fact. :frown:

Mustard Jul 20th 2020 7:34 pm

Re: Masks - Change of rules in Valencia
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 12884690)
If that is a reasonable concern, then the mask is capturing virus particles that would otherwise have been inhaled/ exhaled, (which is surely a good thing, so long as the used mask is disposed of apropriately). ..... Which brings me to the point which has often been repeated in many sources I have read in both the US and UK, and going back as far as March, that the primary benefit to wearing a mask is that everyone else is protected by your mask, and you are protected by everyone else wearing a mask. Those opposed to masks seem to be universally ignorant of this fact. :frown:

I have absolutely no problem with wearing a mask when I go into a supermarket or small shop or use public transport as I see the problems of contagion in confined spaces. But...

The current outbreaks seem to come from food processing and farm sites where workers are enclosed, often with poor hygene.

Then large gatherings of young people who drink and socialise

And finally the family gatherings where people from different regions meet up, exchange kisses etc. spend a long time in an enclosed space and then disperse possibly taking the infection with them.

Obliging people to wear masks in semi-deserted streets is not going to solve these problems. As I suggested in my previous post in the thread, contagion in open air just walking down a street is highly unlikely. I really don't see why I can be fined for walking past a terrace without a mask while those sitting close together on the terrace or in the bar can do so with impunity.

I see people wearing KN95 masks just to take the dog for a walk. In hospitals, the doctors and nurses in ordinary circumstances don't wear these.
There is a lack of information and common sense here. Plus I fear that people will think that wearing a mask is sufficient and they can forget other things.




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