Married autonomos
 

My wife and I will be moving to the Valencia province soon. We are both artists (ceramic sculptures and paintings).
We will be living on savings until we will be old enough to be entitled to some pensions, and wanted to open a small art gallery in our house to sell our art.
I know this is not a sound business plan keeping in mind the current economic situation in Spain. Lets say it is more for love than for money.

On this forum I encountered several threads about 'autonomos', and how this system is in fact prohibiting small businesses.

Is it true that my wife and I would both be autonomos, and that we would have to pay about 600 Euro monthly for social securities even when we haven't earned a penny?
Is there maybe an exception for married people or for artists?

How much is IVA on art?

Re: Married autonomos
 

Yes I've heard that married people only have to pay one set of autonomo in cases when they work in the same business. And I think one of the two are limited to a certain number of hours per week (although hard to prove)

My OH and I are both autonomos and both have to pay the social security payments because we work in very different lines of work and invoice separately

Re: Married autonomos
 

As Concierge for the Spanish section of BE I would like to say hello and welcome.

BE is a very large expat website, so if you have problems finding your way around we have concierges who will try to direct you. The moderators for the Spanish forums are Mitzyboy and Fred James, moderators are there to ensure that the site runs smoothly within the rules of BE. Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderador who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge of the issues of living in Spain. At the top of the page you will find a quirkily named thread called Free Beer which is full of important and useful information. Hope you enjoy your time participating in the forums.

Please let me know if you need any further help.

Rosemary

Re: Married autonomos
 

I would think only one of you need pay which will cover the other member of the household. But you are going to need professional expert advice to setup and legally run the business to ensure all of the correct forms etc are submitted.

I also think it quite likely the overheads will exceed the profit but that might be advantageous for tax purposes. I know some professional artists living locally and they have been severely impacted by the financial downturn in sales terms.

Good luck with your plans.

Re: Married autonomos
 

Rosemary : thank you for the warm welcome.

Cricketman and Spainrico : thank you for your answers.

I am also quite certain that the overheads will exceed the profit.
However, when only one of us needs to pay about 300 Euro a month Seguridad Social for the two of us, then that would be comparable to the situation where both of us would need to pay private health insurance.
If both of us have to pay for Suguridad Social, then... I don't know what then, probably not work at all I guess.

:fingerscrossed: Thanks a lot!

Re: Married autonomos
 

Not working may not be an option as then once your limited period (assuming you are Brits) of UK provided healthcare expires and the fact that you won't have an income could cause you problems with the new residencia rules (detailed on another current thread).

Re: Married autonomos
 

This advise is much appreciated Spainrico :thumbup:.

Both of us will sculpt and paint, but one of us will run the shop as 'autonomo'. If the shop turns out to be successful, we are more than happy to pay income tax.

Re: Married autonomos
 

If you are autonomo you will have to submit quarterly accounts regardless of any income received. Factor that into your calculations because you will probably have to use an accountant or gestor and they will probably charge anything from 60€ upwards each quarter. Then there is the yearly tax return in June which will cost you even more for your gestor.

Re: Married autonomos
 

You can pay one autonomo and register your wife as housewife, then she would be entitled to the same health care as you. BUT she will not be entitled to sick leave or any payment for unemployment and it will not give her pension money.

Re: Married autonomos
 

If I am not mistaken, not only my wife, but I (as autonomo) am not entitled to sick leave and unemployment payments as well. IMO justly so because the system would otherwise be too susceptible to fraud.

Re: Married autonomos
 

There is a voluntary amount you can pay to cover sick pay and unemployment payments. I think it is an extra 50 euros per month, but most people dont pay it

Re: Married autonomos
 

If it can be done electronically or by mail, I will do it myself. Filling in zero's is not much different in English than in Spanish :lol:.
If it involves hours of queueing I will hire a gestor, as patience is not one of my virtues.

Re: Married autonomos
 

Only 50 Euro??? That's a bargain!
But I don't want it because I don't want the Spanish state to finance my household.

Re: Married autonomos
 

Yes it can be done electronically in about 10 minutes. Although you will need some help to get setup unless you speak fluent Spanish

Re: Married autonomos
 

Remember that if you submit 2 quarters with just zeros you risk getting called in and a demand that you de-register.

You need a gestor as you will not know what is allowable/deductable and what is not. It is a potential minefield.

Re: Married autonomos
 

It is quite common that a starting business is not profitable for a year or even several years, especially when the economy is bad...

Re: Married autonomos
 

The zeros are referring to income not profit

Essentially you will need to have someone to help you get setup on the system and explain what boxes to fill in and why. Once you understand you can do it yourself, if you can find someone who is willing to explain that is ;)

Re: Married autonomos
 

Thanks Cricketman; I appreciate your advise.

Re: Married autonomos
 

Here is a funny movie about the bureaucracy encountered when registering as an autonomo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXWZ3...ayer_embedded#!

Re: Married autonomos
 

before I click on it............... is it that one again :eek:

Re: Married autonomos
 

Hi
My husband is unemployed and therefore my dependant so I pay my autonomo and he is covered for hospital visits etc. But as said before not for any other benefit. I couldn't (and wouldn't ;)) employ him as he's pretty useless at most of the things I do (Mine is an arts business too) but his is not to say he doesn't help me at all. It would be churlish of him not to do so!
There is another benefit to this and that is that we get some tax back once a year because my income is low, but obviously charge and pay IVA which is not repayable. However, even this can be quite low if you sell to other businesses inside or outside the eurozone. BUT remember. IVA is charged here from the very first £ and you have to give each and every one of your customer's tax numbers. Food & trinket shops and market stalls get round this but I'm not sure what the rules are for this. My gestor puts together a separate declaration/invoice for any cash income. Any expenses must have your NIE on to be valid. Unless you actively like doing accounts and researching the system (as artists I'm guessing it's not your biggest love;))
Get a gestor who speaks English if your Spanish isn't good. Just like in England an accountant can save you a fortune.
My very best wishes for your enterprise. Any way I can help, I will as I know the other 'creatives' on this forum will.
It sounds like you have some fallback if your income is very low at first so you should be OK.

Re: Married autonomos
 

Thanks angiescarr, for your advise and your best wishes.

It is quite true that accounting is not my favourite passtime :thumbdown:.
I'm surprised you talk about IVA... I'm pretty sure artists don't have to charge/pay IVA !

Probably my wife will be the autonomo (she makes ceramic sculptures) and will sign my paintings :unsure: :eek:, because we cannot afford to pay autonomo fees twice.

Re: Married autonomos
 

Hmm. Interesting point. When does art become VAT-able then. What is 'high art' and what is merchandise?

Re: Married autonomos
 

That's right: if you sell diamonds, mount them on a skull. Then it's called art and you don't have to pay IVA :lol:.

Re: Married autonomos
 

:rofl: