looking to buy a house in Spain
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What is "overvalued"? Long ago I when I first started in financial services, I was asked - What is a market price?" - "It's what a seller is prepared to accept and a buyer is prepared to pay!" There is no other fair value! If an advert says "worth double", then ask why it is not being sold for double! I have no experience of English property so I can't comment except to say that the transfer costs of English property are stupidly low at only 2-4% including estate agent and legal fees. As an example I have an adosada in a popular complex in the centre of Els Poblets, a village near Denia which is very popular with the English and Germans. We paid €212k in 2005. Today it's worth about €140k. So if the economist thinks another 40% should come off we have €84k for a three bed two bath house with garage, trastero and common area pool and gardens. On buying at €212 we were fined for "under declaring" the value for transfer tax! Essentially fair value is determined by the willingness of lenders to lend. When credit is easy, values will be high. When credit is removed, then values fall until those with 100% cash are willing and able buy. Thus I believe that the banks and the financial system have complete control of the value of property and indeed any saleable asset for the same reasons. Can I suggest that anyone reading this do a Google search for a short video entitled "Money As Debt". If this kind of thinking is something you have never considered you will be well rewarded by the time you spend watching that short video (15 mins or less I believe). I do look forward to any comments that come back on this!
[QUOTE=SaritaBarcelona;8964359]
[QUOTE=SaritaBarcelona;8964359]
Sadly I agree Spain (or the Costas) are still overvalued. A fair 2 bed flat (modern, good for small family) is still c 150ke. In the recent auctions in UK there's been 1 bed flats in ok areas for just below 100k GBP, or say 115ke.
/QUOTE]
I agree they are overvalued on the coast, but in tourist areas there is always a certain "added value" as they are easier to rent out short or longterm if necessary (albeit not at the prices people were charging previously). On the Costa del Sol it is possible to pay 150k for a 2 bed flat in a nice area, with parking space, trastero, communal pool; the parking and the storeroom adds considerable value (would be difficult to sell separately right now but that's another story).
/QUOTE]
I agree they are overvalued on the coast, but in tourist areas there is always a certain "added value" as they are easier to rent out short or longterm if necessary (albeit not at the prices people were charging previously). On the Costa del Sol it is possible to pay 150k for a 2 bed flat in a nice area, with parking space, trastero, communal pool; the parking and the storeroom adds considerable value (would be difficult to sell separately right now but that's another story).
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We are a young couple that have dreamed of owning our own home for years. Unfortunately we missed the boat in boom times. Ironically now in these tougher times we are actually making more money and we have a more stable life in Madrid. As 2 self-employed first time buyers we have ZERO chance of a mortgage in the credit crunch.
We are looking for a Brit that is desperately seeking to sell their small house/flat in Madrid but can't find a buyer. We would like to arrange a private mortgage. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-private-mortgages.htm
All safety concerns could be hammered out in a contract arranged by solicitors.
ANY OFFERS?
We are looking for a Brit that is desperately seeking to sell their small house/flat in Madrid but can't find a buyer. We would like to arrange a private mortgage. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-private-mortgages.htm
All safety concerns could be hammered out in a contract arranged by solicitors.
ANY OFFERS?
Lots of Spanish places listed, although a permanent swap site they also give their selling price , lots of Owners keen to get back to the UK
http://www.internationalpropertyswap.com
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[quote=Checkala;8967293]What is "overvalued"? Long ago I when I first started in financial services, I was asked - What is a market price?" - "It's what a seller is prepared to accept and a buyer is prepared to pay!" There is no other fair value! If an advert says "worth double", then ask why it is not being sold for double! I have no experience of English property so I can't comment except to say that the transfer costs of English property are stupidly low at only 2-4% including estate agent and legal fees. As an example I have an adosada in a popular complex in the centre of Els Poblets, a village near Denia which is very popular with the English and Germans. We paid €212k in 2005. Today it's worth about €140k. So if the economist thinks another 40% should come off we have €84k for a three bed two bath house with garage, trastero and common area pool and gardens. On buying at €212 we were fined for "under declaring" the value for transfer tax! Essentially fair value is determined by the willingness of lenders to lend. When credit is easy, values will be high. When credit is removed, then values fall until those with 100% cash are willing and able buy. Thus I believe that the banks and the financial system have complete control of the value of property and indeed any saleable asset for the same reasons. Can I suggest that anyone reading this do a Google search for a short video entitled "Money As Debt". If this kind of thinking is something you have never considered you will be well rewarded by the time you spend watching that short video (15 mins or less I believe). I do look forward to any comments that come back on this!
I would modify that slightly to read "A willing seller and a committed buyer"
I would modify that slightly to read "A willing seller and a committed buyer"
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Which would you prefer? As much as £100 or at least £100? I believe English property transfer costs are amongst the lowest in the world. If I'm wrong tell me where they are lower AND where there is a sound register of title(?)
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[QUOTE=Checkala;8967293]
I have no experience of English property so I can't comment except to say that the transfer costs of English property are stupidly low at only 2-4% including estate agent and legal fees. ........................
Amounts quoted are incorrect. Stamp Duty/Land Tax/transfer tax/call it what you will varies from 0 to 4% in the UK depending on property value. All other fees are extra and are not included and AFAIK buyers never pay an estate agency fee.
Given that property prices are generally much higher in the UK than in Spain
the ¨stupidly low¨ comment is ridiculous.
I have no experience of English property so I can't comment except to say that the transfer costs of English property are stupidly low at only 2-4% including estate agent and legal fees. ........................
Amounts quoted are incorrect. Stamp Duty/Land Tax/transfer tax/call it what you will varies from 0 to 4% in the UK depending on property value. All other fees are extra and are not included and AFAIK buyers never pay an estate agency fee.
Given that property prices are generally much higher in the UK than in Spain
the ¨stupidly low¨ comment is ridiculous.
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Originally Posted by Checkala
I have no experience of English property so I can't comment except to say that the transfer costs of English property are stupidly low at only 2-4% including estate agent and legal fees.
I have no experience of English property so I can't comment except to say that the transfer costs of English property are stupidly low at only 2-4% including estate agent and legal fees.
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My understanding is that England has a sliding transfer tax scale where very cheap property is transferred for as little as 1% of declared value. I also have heard that estate agents only charge around 1-2% and legal fees are non value related but at scale fees. Without a doubt English property transfers have to be the lowest in the world. I have no idea what an "Afaik" buyer is? Sorry I let England over 25 years ago! From what I have heard there is not much difference between Spanish and English property values especially when the pound is around €1.
[QUOTE=whitelinen;8973534]
I have no experience of English property so I can't comment except to say that the transfer costs of English property are stupidly low at only 2-4% including estate agent and legal fees. ........................
Amounts quoted are incorrect. Stamp Duty/Land Tax/transfer tax/call it what you will varies from 0 to 4% in the UK depending on property value. All other fees are extra and are not included and AFAIK buyers never pay an estate agency fee.
Given that property prices are generally much higher in the UK than in Spain
the ¨stupidly low¨ comment is ridiculous.
[QUOTE=whitelinen;8973534]
I have no experience of English property so I can't comment except to say that the transfer costs of English property are stupidly low at only 2-4% including estate agent and legal fees. ........................
Amounts quoted are incorrect. Stamp Duty/Land Tax/transfer tax/call it what you will varies from 0 to 4% in the UK depending on property value. All other fees are extra and are not included and AFAIK buyers never pay an estate agency fee.
Given that property prices are generally much higher in the UK than in Spain
the ¨stupidly low¨ comment is ridiculous.
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[QUOTE=Checkala;8973595]
From what I have heard there is not much difference between Spanish and English property values especially when the pound is around €1.
That would explain why I was able to buy a three bedroomed two bathroom detached villa with a swimming pool in Spain for less than £140k then ... There are loads at that price in the UK ....... aren't there?
From what I have heard there is not much difference between Spanish and English property values especially when the pound is around €1.
That would explain why I was able to buy a three bedroomed two bathroom detached villa with a swimming pool in Spain for less than £140k then ... There are loads at that price in the UK ....... aren't there?
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You must compare like with like. Only the very wealthy have pools in England for good reason - look at the weather difference! There's an English TV program called Location Location. Values vary enormously with locations. You's pay much more for a 3 bed villa facing the sea in the Northern CB than in the southern area around Torrevieja. Equally a similar property in Estremadura would be very cheap! Yes I'm sure you could get a 3 bed villa in England for €140k if you go up Northern and view between rain storms!
[QUOTE=Mitzyboy;8973608]
[QUOTE=Mitzyboy;8973608]
From what I have heard there is not much difference between Spanish and English property values especially when the pound is around €1.
That would explain why I was able to buy a three bedroomed two bathroom detached villa with a swimming pool in Spain for less than £140k then ... There are loads at that price in the UK ....... aren't there?![Smile](https://britishexpats.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif)
That would explain why I was able to buy a three bedroomed two bathroom detached villa with a swimming pool in Spain for less than £140k then ... There are loads at that price in the UK ....... aren't there?
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[quote=Checkala;8973595]My understanding is that England has a sliding transfer tax scale where very cheap property is transferred for as little as 1% of declared value. I also have heard that estate agents only charge around 1-2% and legal fees are non value related but at scale fees. Without a doubt English property transfers have to be the lowest in the world. I have no idea what an "Afaik" buyer is? Sorry I let England over 25 years ago! From what I have heard there is not much difference between Spanish and English property values especially when the pound is around €1.[]
Scale fees have been abolished and you can now use a non solicitor for conveyancing so for £250 for a £400k property is now possible. Most properties are now "registered" so it is even cheaper to DIY. I think it could be cheaper if Estate agents saw sense as it is it is possble to use the internet and cut them out completly. If real values are used then UK generally is about 2x Spain generally.
Scale fees have been abolished and you can now use a non solicitor for conveyancing so for £250 for a £400k property is now possible. Most properties are now "registered" so it is even cheaper to DIY. I think it could be cheaper if Estate agents saw sense as it is it is possble to use the internet and cut them out completly. If real values are used then UK generally is about 2x Spain generally.
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[QUOTE=Checkala;8973647]You must compare like with like. Only the very wealthy have pools in England for good reason - look at the weather difference! There's an English TV program called Location Location. Values vary enormously with locations. You's pay much more for a 3 bed villa facing the sea in the Northern CB than in the southern area around Torrevieja. Equally a similar property in Estremadura would be very cheap! Yes I'm sure you could get a 3 bed villa in England for €140k if you go up Northern and view between rain storms!
But you did say that English and UK property values are similar. I'm comparing like for like, £ for €. I doubt you will find any three bedroom two bathroom detached houses NOW with a swimming pool near the seafront anywhere in England that is new and in a state that you can live in for £140k. In 2006, definately not. In fact ... forget the pool ... just a three bedroomed two bath detached house with a decent garden would be a struggle unless you go to the wilds of scotland![Big Grin](https://britishexpats.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
The average detatched house price in UK is £328K
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/h...tml/houses.stm
This is obviously an important consideration for those considering selling up in the UK and buying in Spain.
But you did say that English and UK property values are similar. I'm comparing like for like, £ for €. I doubt you will find any three bedroom two bathroom detached houses NOW with a swimming pool near the seafront anywhere in England that is new and in a state that you can live in for £140k. In 2006, definately not. In fact ... forget the pool ... just a three bedroomed two bath detached house with a decent garden would be a struggle unless you go to the wilds of scotland
![Big Grin](https://britishexpats.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
The average detatched house price in UK is £328K
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/h...tml/houses.stm
This is obviously an important consideration for those considering selling up in the UK and buying in Spain.
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[QUOTE=John & Kath;8973358]
What is "overvalued"? Long ago I when I first started in financial services, I was asked - What is a market price?" - "It's what a seller is prepared to accept and a buyer is prepared to pay!" There is no other fair value! If an advert says "worth double", then ask why it is not being sold for double! I have no experience of English property so I can't comment except to say that the transfer costs of English property are stupidly low at only 2-4% including estate agent and legal fees. As an example I have an adosada in a popular complex in the centre of Els Poblets, a village near Denia which is very popular with the English and Germans. We paid €212k in 2005. Today it's worth about €140k. So if the economist thinks another 40% should come off we have €84k for a three bed two bath house with garage, trastero and common area pool and gardens. On buying at €212 we were fined for "under declaring" the value for transfer tax! Essentially fair value is determined by the willingness of lenders to lend. When credit is easy, values will be high. When credit is removed, then values fall until those with 100% cash are willing and able buy. Thus I believe that the banks and the financial system have complete control of the value of property and indeed any saleable asset for the same reasons. Can I suggest that anyone reading this do a Google search for a short video entitled "Money As Debt". If this kind of thinking is something you have never considered you will be well rewarded by the time you spend watching that short video (15 mins or less I believe). I do look forward to any comments that come back on this!
I would modify that slightly to read "A willing seller and a committed buyer"
I would modify that slightly to read "A willing seller and a committed buyer"
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Those are ASKING prices! I sold an apartment asking €190k - and after 18 months got €130k. I'm sure similar things are happening in England. Where do they publish ACTUAL SELLING prices in England?
[QUOTE=Mitzyboy;8974005]
[QUOTE=Mitzyboy;8974005]
You must compare like with like. Only the very wealthy have pools in England for good reason - look at the weather difference! There's an English TV program called Location Location. Values vary enormously with locations. You's pay much more for a 3 bed villa facing the sea in the Northern CB than in the southern area around Torrevieja. Equally a similar property in Estremadura would be very cheap! Yes I'm sure you could get a 3 bed villa in England for €140k if you go up Northern and view between rain storms!
But you did say that English and UK property values are similar. I'm comparing like for like, £ for €. I doubt you will find any three bedroom two bathroom detached houses NOW with a swimming pool near the seafront anywhere in England that is new and in a state that you can live in for £140k. In 2006, definately not. In fact ... forget the pool ... just a three bedroomed two bath detached house with a decent garden would be a struggle unless you go to the wilds of scotland![Big Grin](https://britishexpats.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
The average detatched house price in UK is £328K
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/h...tml/houses.stm
This is obviously an important consideration for those considering selling up in the UK and buying in Spain.
But you did say that English and UK property values are similar. I'm comparing like for like, £ for €. I doubt you will find any three bedroom two bathroom detached houses NOW with a swimming pool near the seafront anywhere in England that is new and in a state that you can live in for £140k. In 2006, definately not. In fact ... forget the pool ... just a three bedroomed two bath detached house with a decent garden would be a struggle unless you go to the wilds of scotland
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The average detatched house price in UK is £328K
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/h...tml/houses.stm
This is obviously an important consideration for those considering selling up in the UK and buying in Spain.
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#30
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[QUOTE=Checkala;8974817]Those are ASKING prices! I sold an apartment asking €190k - and after 18 months got €130k. I'm sure similar things are happening in England. Where do they publish ACTUAL SELLING prices in England?
The source is the land registry, as you will see if you look at the piece. I'm assuming therefore that they are the selling prices as the land registry wouldnt have the price it was put up for originally.
OK, you're right and I'm wrong![LOL](https://britishexpats.com/forum/images/smilies/lol.gif)
If I go back to the UK tomorrow I will be able to get a 3 bedroomed 2 bathroomed house in 800 m plot with swimming pool, mountain and sea views with two balcony's for £140k. I admit it, I'm not living in the real world.
The source is the land registry, as you will see if you look at the piece. I'm assuming therefore that they are the selling prices as the land registry wouldnt have the price it was put up for originally.
OK, you're right and I'm wrong
![LOL](https://britishexpats.com/forum/images/smilies/lol.gif)
If I go back to the UK tomorrow I will be able to get a 3 bedroomed 2 bathroomed house in 800 m plot with swimming pool, mountain and sea views with two balcony's for £140k. I admit it, I'm not living in the real world.
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