Dick Dasterdly

Union a threat to labour,
Union are labour, they've even just chosen the next PM in case you hadn't noticed.

Silicosis is only one problem,a very unpleasant one at that, and I still think you're treating it lightly if you believe the risk can be controlled in the wink of an eye.
Many ppl.are harping on about coal reserves,but most don't have a clue about the logistics involved.
For instance in my area miners were trying to work some seams as shallow as eighteen inches and often lying in water to do so.
As if this wasn't difficult enough the seams quite often come up against a hitch, basically a dead end or fault line. The seam will continue at a different level but it's usually impractical,impossible and often downright dangerous to continue trying to mine it any further underground.

Since most of these pits closed under Labour, opencast operations have continued and indeed are still continuing at present with a massive site close to me,to salvage what coal reserves still remain.
The guys work in relative safety eliminating the risk of the underground diseases and accidents which were so common previously.
It is also nonsense to presume that all ex miners are out of work as a good percentage eventually got decent jobs, often in small businesses with some even starting their own businesses in much more civilised working conditions.

I have yet to meet one in my neck of the woods who regrets getting out of the pits, though it is very true they miss the strong comradeship that used to exist then, as they so much relied on each other simply to survive down below.
That also existed throughout the community as a whole, so possibly the saddest thing of all for most of them, which they still regret and talk about today, was the break up of those communities and villages, most of which were condemned to death under LABOUR Council Category D orders.

bil

I would agree that Blair's Labour shagged the north and the old mining communities as bad as Thatcher. Don't ask me to explain it. I can't.

Mining was a shit job. Scant wonder that the union tried to screw as much as they could.

You make it sound as tho all mining involved lying there half covered in water, trying to pick coal out from seams that were 1/2 an inch deep, Eeee! Luxury!

Unions were a threat for precisely that reason. Labour wanted to distance themselves as far as possible from the NUM, and so shagging the miners was politically expedient.

Harping on about the reserves? Yeah, I'll harp on. God forbid we should mention the millions of tons of prime fuel down there.

Domino

Funny that I remember there being £millions invested in new businesses in the mining villages and towns. But how much of it was syphoned off by the NUM? As I said earlier, the NUM took their % from the compensation £millions, not legally entitled to but did, even though it was all Government paid for, also taking a % from the solicitors, who were also paid by Government. That money could have been used by the NUM to help their people to find new work, start up small businesses, get back the self respect those unions had kicked out of them by taking them on strike when there wasnt any work.

That is why over the past 2 decades the unions have lost their grip, they were set up to be beneficial organisations for the member, but do nothing for their members except go out of strike when there is no work.
This "day of action" twaddle, it means that instead of getting paid a large number of people will probably get nothing.

Remember that Millipede was voted in by union leaders not union members.
What happened to one man one vote...

by the way, my cousin works as a nurse speciallising in miners diseases, because they no longer work down the pit doesnt mean they don't get silicosis, its like asbestosis, once there stays until death. Nasty.

Dick Dasterdly

So how does your serious concern about millions of tons of unburnt coal fit in with your never ending concern about all the crap being pumped into the atmosphere. ?

HBG

I suppose if the ancients stop their sabre rattling about some daft events stretching back to their youth, a sensible discussion might be forthcoming. I'm not hopeful, and I'm not bothered either, but all that nonsense about Scargill has got to be at least 50 years old.

That's what's holding the country back, we've got a vibrant south, full of entrepreneurs, beautiful women, and a north full of fatties rabitting on about Scargill.

Scotland rightly wants independence, and I think the south of England should have it too. North of Watford isn't England, it's a weird place full of communists and people who can't even speak proper English.

bil

Baby, bathwater.

You can burn coal and ensure that the CO2 is captured in algal towers, but the other thing is this. We get our synthetics from oil at the moment. If what they say is true, and the oil reserves are running out, then we may, one day be very glad we have such a huge reserve of raw hydrocarbons down there.

I just love your twinkly old uncle impersonation, the miners being freed to dance among the daisies etc etc etc, your caring face for the environment...

was that a tear I felt trickling down my leg?

HBG

Having thought about it some more, it would make perfect sense. England needs to be split in two. Hadrians wall to the north and a straight line from Watford to the Irish Sea.

The bit in between could have Lord Prescott as their King, with a palace in Manchester, or Bolton, and if necessary the borders could be closed when appropriate.

I used to live in the south before I came to Spain, and I was totally fed up with Scargill and all the other communist shit from up north.

bil

I never could stand any type of political opportunist/extremist. Left or right.

Dick Dasterdly

Once again I feel you treat it all too lightly,but maybe thats down to you never having been closely involved.
I have been from an early age, even as a nipper helping beind the counter in the local P.O. and seeing the never ending stream of telegrams for those families whose loved ones had serious accidents down below.
Seeing all the tragedy at first hand both from accidents and silicosis is something which is always with me and that together with the comradeship, gave me nothing but respect for the vast majority of ppl.in my community.
I may have eventually ended up on the opposite side of the fence politically, but that was never even worthy of the vaguest consideration back then and certainly still doesn't in the least affect my kinship with those of them who are still around today, for all they may still behave like donkeys at election time.
I suppose a person had to live closely in such a community to fully understand it and I don't think it was anything like the situation during Scargills time amongst the S.Yorkshire miners who looked upon themselves as Gods gift, despite working in conditions which were sheer luxury compared to those in earlier years in my neck of the woods.

bil

What am I supposed to do? Slit my wrists?

I have said repeatedly that I consider it an awful job. Some places worse than others. That doesn't have anything to do with the fact that the closure of the mines had nothing to do with humanitarian feelings on behalf of the tories or labour, and everything to do with politicking and profiteering.

It's like the railways. Every damn time there was a problem, the government reacted like a spoiled child who throws away a toy that isn't perfect.

Dick Dasterdly

Well if you haven't slit them already just have a read through the description of a few of these under the memorium section.
Some pretty horrific mishaps and kids as young as eleven involved.
Just one pit of many hundreds in my area alone. Way before my time, but an indication of just why Unions were so desperately needed back then.
Virtually every case would be considered negligence by the miner and out on the streets for the family, if no one else worked in the pit.

http://www.dmm.org.uk/colliery/w048.htm#disasters

bil

Well, they are over 100 years ago, so of limited relevance. Yeah, the unions were desperately needed then.

I happen to believe that while workplace injustice exists, then unions are needed. They too need to change as do the times and the problems faced by the workers.

johnnyone

This deserves a gold medal for the longest non-related off post thread.
If that was an Olympic sport this forum would win gold everytime.

I am a sports fan but did not apply for any tickets.
As a Londoner within an Olympic borough I am seriously thinking of decamping to Spain for a few weeks despite the heat then.
There are events outside London eg. Football

rugbymatt

We never ran out of coal, it was just too expensive to mine compared to foreign, non unionized coal, and Milliband was actually voted in by Labour party members as well as Union members and leaders. It was the first time the votes were 50/50 split.