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Living in Spain - the good things!

Living in Spain - the good things!

Old Feb 23rd 2010, 10:35 am
  #31  
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Default Re: Living in Spain - the good things!

Originally Posted by Youcancallmeal
Hi manamama

Thanks for your info. Is that LPG gas? Here in the Uk we are all getting surprises with gas, oil and lecky. Actually we are on oil and pay by monthly DD about £45 for oil and same for lecky. So that is £90*12 = £1080 for the year. It is a small house!.

So we are trying to cut down on tumble dryer for example. We have just switched lecky supplier to save about £140 a year.

My son is a structural and civil engineer and has promised to assist in finding solution to heating and cooling when we make the move.

One idea is very interesting. If you have/install/ a pool, a pipe is laid through the pool open to the air at some point distant and into the house at the other end. In the roof a special vent is installed made of a material that absorbs heat. As the vent heats up it draws air up through it, through the pipe in the pool which cools the air coming in and heats the pool.

No moving parts! But you need a pool and to install the pipe.

Just a thought!

You can call me Al.
That's funny. I live in Asturias and there are no pools here !

Our gas bill is high because our house is central heated and we had the heating on TOO MUCH. During the spring and summer it's only 40 euros per 2 month bill.

Our electricity is with hc energia (used for cooking and lights and elec appliances) is getting more expensive.

Bill is feb 2009 was 96 euros, bill in april2009 was 143 euros, bill in june 2009 was 101 euros, bill in august 2009 was 116 euros , bill in oct 2009 was 160 euros and bill in dec 2009 was 196 euros.

After the gas bill we now have the heating on for a few hours a day..when it is cold, we all have to wear another layer and socks. I am cold now but hey ho, I don't want another bill like that.

But glad you have it all thought out..great having a son who knows useful stuff.
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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 10:52 am
  #32  
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Default Re: Living in Spain - the good things!

If you are retiring, then health is important and private medical insurance will be around 1,500 Euros per person. You will be entitled to join the Spanish health service, but if you don’t speak really good Spanish, you will need an interpreter, at least at first. Most Spanish doctors will insist on an efficient interpreter.

Especially if buying a house, the bureaucracy is horrendous, but it doesn’t cost much to employ a Gestor who will do it all for you – house, car, residencia, padron, gas, electric, water etc etc. It has been said a million times, but renting is a better option to start with.

We found finding the right place the most difficult part, and Spain is much bigger and more varied than the UK. If you are renting, then you have the freedom to move until you’ve found your little patch of paradise in the sun.

And as Mitzy said, to live comfortably, you will need an income of 1,500 Euros a month, without housing costs.

Last edited by HBG; Feb 23rd 2010 at 10:54 am.
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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 10:59 am
  #33  
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Default Re: Living in Spain - the good things!

Income of 1500 euros ? without housing costs...

That's very generous isn't it?

Food for two about 300 euros per month?
Bills about 250 euros per month?
Clothes about 70 euros per month?
Healthcare would be free to retirees
Internet about 50 euros per month
Skype is free or very cheap if not to another skype.
Car petrol 100 euros per mont

If a couple are careful with their cash (which call me al is, it will be much cheaper, don't you think?)


Last edited by manamama; Feb 23rd 2010 at 11:00 am. Reason: didn't proof-read again
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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 11:39 am
  #34  
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Default Re: Living in Spain - the good things!

Thanks for the new posts.

Hi HBG

we are considering renting to start with. Given the vast area we are looking at I don't think we can cover it all and say yes this is definatively where we want to be in a couple of weeks touring around in a car. So some advice and time is needed. Renting makes sense.
Cheers

You can call me Al.
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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 1:58 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Living in Spain - the good things!

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy
Dont ask for only positive comments only!!! That doesnt really give the balanced view you mentioned

OK, you've made it clear that you are retiring, so that makes it easier for me to comment as we are also retirees here.

If you are moving to Spain to retire then the benefits are positive. If you have a reasonable income (I would say €1500 a month excl rental) then you are going to live a reasonable lifestyle, subject to the area you choose.

I'm in the Northern Costa Blanca. Since the rate of exchange crash we have been a lot worse off with our income from the UK. Our reaction was to stop spending without thought. We now for instance go to Aldi or Lidl to get all we can before we go to Mercadona! We visit two supermarkets and maybe another shop for our shopping then .... not as easy as popping down to Tescos.

We no longer go out for expensive evening meals in posh restaurants costing us €80. We use the daily menus that might cost us €8 - €12 each.

The net result is that we are still worse off than we were three years ago in Spain, but we don't find it a struggle. I go back to the UK (midlands) fairly regularly and without doubt I can say that despite everything I am still better off financially here than the UK. The cost of living generally in the Northern CB if you are streetwise is less than the midlands UK. To start with my "council tax" is €400 for a start, my place in the UK is £850, and the one we left to come here was £1500. Electricity is expensive. At one point I was paying near €100 a month in the winter, now I have it under control.

If one of you is over retirement age then your health cover will be through the state for both of you. If not, you will need to take private health cover after your initial E106 cover. Its cheaper here, probably €1400 ish for a couple in their mid fifties. With state care you have to speak Spanish. Imagine going to the doctor here and not being able to explain what is wrong with you. You could end up going with a sore throat and being given suppositories.

The weather is a nice point. Having just spent two months in the UK I will appreciate it more when summer comes. Something we sometimes forget here. Its not always warm here though. People around here have had the log burners on for the last three months. It gets bloody cold at night. The Pool; I get late March/April to maybe early October out of it ... other than that its too cold unless you are Finnish or something like that. Of course you still have to look after it all year.

The beaurocracy is mad. It does my head in sometimes. You need a licence to pick your nose, and the documentation is never ending. If you decide to open a business, be ready for this.

Beware the expat know it all. I know a couple who live nearby in Spain who have never registered on the foreigners list or padron because they have a house in the UK and therefore they don't need to be residents here or pay tax. They tell everyone this, so expats they know now believe this to be true. You will find people who think Spain has no faults on here, but you will find those everywhere. It's because of their personal experiences, not that they are blinkered. Some people just hit it lucky and due to their temperament cope with things better than others.

But when all is said and done you cannot imagine the frustration of not being able to communicate. When I came here I spoke little Spanish. I did a course in the UK and I have been doing a course with a teacher on here. I am by no way fluent at all. In fact I have been very stupidly lazy. I can (famous words) get by, and when forced into a situation I often surprise myself. If I were to give you one piece of advice it would be to learn as much Spanish as you can. I once went into a local shop (appropriately named "Arse") and went up to the guy and said in my best Spanish "do you speak English?" He looked at me curiously and in his best English said "do you speak Spanish?" I've never done that since.

So there you are. You will probably find it extremely stressful for the first months you are here. You may even regret having made the move ... but if you have the income and you think you can hack it then give it a go.

Can I just say, I know Mitzy gets loads of hassle on here because he really does love doing the job he does on forums, but this post is just about one of the best ones I have seen on here in ages, very informative and to the point, nice one Mitz.
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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 2:06 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Living in Spain - the good things!

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
Can I just say, I know Mitzy gets loads of hassle on here because he really does love doing the job he does on forums, but this post is just about one of the best ones I have seen on here in ages, very informative and to the point, nice one Mitz.
what he said
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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 2:07 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: Living in Spain - the good things!

Originally Posted by manamama
Income of 1500 euros ? without housing costs...

That's very generous isn't it?

Food for two about 300 euros per month?
Bills about 250 euros per month?
Clothes about 70 euros per month?
Healthcare would be free to retirees
Internet about 50 euros per month
Skype is free or very cheap if not to another skype.
Car petrol 100 euros per mont

If a couple are careful with their cash (which call me al is, it will be much cheaper, don't you think?)

Yes I thought that too. Obviously some people have more extravagent lives than others, but I would think 1,000 euros/month plus rent would be a nice standard of living for a couple.
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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 2:11 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Living in Spain - the good things!

Originally Posted by jackytoo
What some term as "negative" others may think realistic. Some who post negative do it as a response to the over-positive. Mitzy's post is well-balanced. Lots of these threads end the same with the OP getting offended cos they don't get the replies they want.
Yeah I get your point, and certainly wasn't talking about Mitzy's post, which I felt was v balanced, or any other in this thread, just a comment in general. Thanks for letting me clear that up.
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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 2:13 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Living in Spain - the good things!

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
Can I just say, I know Mitzy gets loads of hassle on here because he really does love doing the job he does on forums, but this post is just about one of the best ones I have seen on here in ages, very informative and to the point, nice one Mitz.
I agree and have learnt loads from Mitzy's posts.
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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 2:34 pm
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Default Re: Living in Spain - the good things!

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy
Dont ask for only positive comments only!!! That doesnt really give the balanced view you mentioned

OK, you've made it clear that you are retiring, so that makes it easier for me to comment as we are also retirees here.

If you are moving to Spain to retire then the benefits are positive. If you have a reasonable income (I would say €1500 a month excl rental) then you are going to live a reasonable lifestyle, subject to the area you choose.

I'm in the Northern Costa Blanca. Since the rate of exchange crash we have been a lot worse off with our income from the UK. Our reaction was to stop spending without thought. We now for instance go to Aldi or Lidl to get all we can before we go to Mercadona! We visit two supermarkets and maybe another shop for our shopping then .... not as easy as popping down to Tescos.

We no longer go out for expensive evening meals in posh restaurants costing us €80. We use the daily menus that might cost us €8 - €12 each.

The net result is that we are still worse off than we were three years ago in Spain, but we don't find it a struggle. I go back to the UK (midlands) fairly regularly and without doubt I can say that despite everything I am still better off financially here than the UK. The cost of living generally in the Northern CB if you are streetwise is less than the midlands UK. To start with my "council tax" is €400 for a start, my place in the UK is £850, and the one we left to come here was £1500. Electricity is expensive. At one point I was paying near €100 a month in the winter, now I have it under control.

If one of you is over retirement age then your health cover will be through the state for both of you. If not, you will need to take private health cover after your initial E106 cover. Its cheaper here, probably €1400 ish for a couple in their mid fifties. With state care you have to speak Spanish. Imagine going to the doctor here and not being able to explain what is wrong with you. You could end up going with a sore throat and being given suppositories.

The weather is a nice point. Having just spent two months in the UK I will appreciate it more when summer comes. Something we sometimes forget here. Its not always warm here though. People around here have had the log burners on for the last three months. It gets bloody cold at night. The Pool; I get late March/April to maybe early October out of it ... other than that its too cold unless you are Finnish or something like that. Of course you still have to look after it all year.

The beaurocracy is mad. It does my head in sometimes. You need a licence to pick your nose, and the documentation is never ending. If you decide to open a business, be ready for this.

Beware the expat know it all. I know a couple who live nearby in Spain who have never registered on the foreigners list or padron because they have a house in the UK and therefore they don't need to be residents here or pay tax. They tell everyone this, so expats they know now believe this to be true. You will find people who think Spain has no faults on here, but you will find those everywhere. It's because of their personal experiences, not that they are blinkered. Some people just hit it lucky and due to their temperament cope with things better than others.

But when all is said and done you cannot imagine the frustration of not being able to communicate. When I came here I spoke little Spanish. I did a course in the UK and I have been doing a course with a teacher on here. I am by no way fluent at all. In fact I have been very stupidly lazy. I can (famous words) get by, and when forced into a situation I often surprise myself. If I were to give you one piece of advice it would be to learn as much Spanish as you can. I once went into a local shop (appropriately named "Arse") and went up to the guy and said in my best Spanish "do you speak English?" He looked at me curiously and in his best English said "do you speak Spanish?" I've never done that since.

So there you are. You will probably find it extremely stressful for the first months you are here. You may even regret having made the move ... but if you have the income and you think you can hack it then give it a go.
'The beaurocracy is mad'

It's also spelt very differently by all accounts
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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 2:55 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: Living in Spain - the good things!

Originally Posted by superskib
'The beaurocracy is mad'

It's also spelt very differently by all accounts
I dont think the bureaucracy is actually so bad in Spain. At least they are friendly and try to help!

Ask some foreigners how easy it was in Britain to arrange a visa, or open a bank account or get a national insurance number.

You'll then start to think of Spain as efficient!

Then ask them if they could have done that in Britain if they didnt speak English! They'll look at you as if you were crazy (probably/maybe).
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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 3:02 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Living in Spain - the good things!

Originally Posted by superskib
'The beaurocracy is mad'

It's also spelt very differently by all accounts
To be fair, Mitzy posted it gone 9 am so he has been on the Gin already.
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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 3:10 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: Living in Spain - the good things!

Originally Posted by cricketman
I dont think the bureaucracy is actually so bad in Spain. At least they are friendly and try to help!

Ask some foreigners how easy it was in Britain to arrange a visa, or open a bank account or get a national insurance number.

You'll then start to think of Spain as efficient!

Then ask them if they could have done that in Britain if they didnt speak English! They'll look at you as if you were crazy (probably/maybe).
So far we haven't found it too bad with very limited Spanish although I am trying to learn. Got NIE nos OK very straightforward and getting residencia in the future looks to be about the same. Opened bank account with La Caixa and got internet banking in English so no problem there. Biggest hassle would seem to be getting a car re-registered. Next year we will be driving our car over as we want to run it over there and will need to get it re-registered with spanish plates etc. This looks like quite a rigmarole but I'm sure we'll get there.

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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 3:30 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Living in Spain - the good things!

Originally Posted by superskib
'The beaurocracy is mad'

It's also spelt very differently by all accounts
Oh thats very clever .... thanks. Please come back when you have something constructive to say!
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Old Mar 7th 2010, 8:59 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: Living in Spain - the good things!

Originally Posted by Youcancallmeal
Thanks for the comments so far. I am trying to get a balanced view so all comments welcome.

We leaned a lot when we were looking for somewhere in Italy. You really have to learn some Italian.

I have already started to re learn my Spanish, last used in anger O' level 1965, suprising how much you remember!

The biggest benefit we see is the warmth and a generally better life style (and the possibility of a pool so my wife can get exercise for her bad back).

We are trying to see it as being attracted to Spain rather than driven out of England. But yes there are reasons to leave.

We aim to retire, rather than work, though we do have some novel business ideas!

So please keep the positive comments coming.

Cheers

You can call me Al
some reasons to move to Spain

Courgettes at 69p a Kilo. Sharon fruit (in season) for not much more.
(endless list of cheap seasonal fresh fruit and veg. Those were just the first two I thought of)
A meal in our local bar for 4 people including drinks £20 euros
(There will be members of this group who will disbelieve this)
Council tax (here) of around 100 euros a year,
the best coffee I've ever tasted.
The best neighbours I've ever known
Beautiful weather (usually)

No I'm not saying where. But not usual expat territory.

Reasons not to move to Spain
High proportion of 'whinge-ers' amongst other expats
Sorry guys... but there are a lot;-)
Tradesmen will rob you with a smile
You HAVE to learn Spanish to avoid the above, and becoming one of the above-above;-)
And yes. Spanish utility companies are difficult to deal with and employ 'English speakers' who can't.

I love the place. But if you're a something-for-nothing type. Don't bother. You get what you put in in Spain.
You *can* live for next to nothing. But you have to be prepared to live like a poor Spaniard. If you want all the luxuries, you'll end up paying one way or another.
Good luck with your research, and you sound like a positive thinker/do-er...so you should love it here:-)
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