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Licence of first occupation

Licence of first occupation

Old Mar 15th 2007, 10:47 pm
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Default Re: Licence of first occupation

Originally Posted by keithwalters View Post
Smarties has made no mention of the property not have having its licencia de obras. So why would you assume that?
I dont assume anything. What I said was if it had no license then it would be illegal. In Chiclana at least 30000 villas have been built without one and now this is leading to all sorts of problems with electric supply.
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Old Mar 15th 2007, 11:00 pm
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Default Re: Licence of first occupation

Well no doubt smarties is now permanently attached to his toilet seat having been scared sh!tless by all on here.

As none of us know the full story of the villa, and none of us are actually legal experts, can I again urge Smarties to just speak to his abogado and ascertain the full situation from a legal point of view. An independent solicitor, as I keep repeating, would be the best bet. But as has been said, to bale out on a villa purchase just because of what has been said on here would be silly. Self doubt and panic can be an integral part of moving to a new country and buying a place here. Don't let whats said on here spook you as it is true that many have had bad experiences. It doesn't have to be like that! Get advice from the right quarters and re gain your confidence.
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Old Mar 15th 2007, 11:09 pm
  #48  
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Default Re: Licence of first occupation

I've known Smarties for almost 20 years. He's having a few jitters but that's understandable. But he won't back out of fulfilling his dream once he's over the worst. No doubt, like many here who've alraedy made the leap, he and I will be sitting on his roof terrace watching the stars and having beer wondering what all the fuss was about.

He's cool - no worries
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Old Mar 15th 2007, 11:13 pm
  #49  
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Default Re: Licence of first occupation

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy View Post
Well no doubt smarties is now permanently attached to his toilet seat having been scared sh!tless by all on here.


SmartiesUK - as others have said please get yourself your own lawyer who is nowt to do with the developer or the agent.
Read carefully any contract they ask you to enter into and seek your lawyer's professional advice. You are at liberty to bargain over clauses you don't like or would like to insert. For example, a clause which would be in your favour would be to stipulate that you cannot be forced to complete before the LFO is in place.
You are the client, you have the money and so are in the driving seat. Don't let yourself be sweet-talked, coerced or bullied into doing anything you feel uncomfortable about or wouldn't do if you were buying in the UK, just because you are told that it is the norm in Spain. Don't have nightmares!
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Old Mar 15th 2007, 11:24 pm
  #50  
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Default Re: Licence of first occupation

Originally Posted by Hillybilly View Post
.... a clause which would be in your favour would be to stipulate that you cannot be forced to complete before the LFO is in place....
You don't even need that clause in the contract. It is the law. You cannot be forced to complete if the paperwork is not in order and you cannot be held to be in breach of contract for failing to do so under these circumstances.

You should however make sure that the contract does not state that you waive your right to this protection and, if the developer/agent is being really insistent, you should actually attend the notary's office at the appointed time and state, before the notary if necessary, your reason for refusing to complete.
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Old Mar 15th 2007, 11:24 pm
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Smile Re: Licence of first occupation

mmmm

Nosing in!!

If I were Smarties UK knowing what I know now having our wee dream home Sitting in Spain without Electricity (and as the house uses well water, therefor no water!)since last June I would boldy suggest that SmartiesUK dots every i and crosses every T before paying any more money. And then check again. Had I known then what I know now I would glady have paid more for the RIGHT advice. If I may suggest, use a UK based solicitor regardless of whether your abogado speaks good english or not.

At least then you will have some recourse if it does go wrong.

It can all get very messy (only for the purchaser) indeed and then you are left out on your own!

However, even although we are one of the 30,000 in Chiclana without legal papers from the townhall and no electricity or water, we pull the cord fire up the generator pour the beer and enjoy the sunshine. Live is too short to worry.

Good luck
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Old Mar 15th 2007, 11:35 pm
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Default Re: Licence of first occupation

Ninety per cent of Spanish lawyers are either corrupt or incompetent and the other ten per cent are likely to view property conveyancing as not being worthy of their talents.
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Old Mar 15th 2007, 11:35 pm
  #53  
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Default Re: Licence of first occupation

Originally Posted by mitzipurr View Post
I dont assume anything. What I said was if it had no license then it would be illegal. In Chiclana at least 30000 villas have been built without one and now this is leading to all sorts of problems with electric supply.
Mitzipurr, you mentioned "licence to build". Smarties question was about the LFO, not the licencia de obras.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the villas in Chiclana were lacking the licencia de obras and are therefore naturally illegal.

JDR - I´ve never heard about the LFOs being given by default. That´s a new one on me.

As for the solicitor, yes of course get an independant one. But (without checking all the way back through the thread) I don´t think Smarties has told us that his solicitor ISNT independant.

What alarms me the most is the fact that Smarties gives us a scenario in which there is nothing untoward (although, granted, we don´t know the whole story), receives "advice" which causes him to panic and consider backing out of the purchase of his dream villa, and I feel like I am the only one trying to encourage rational thinking!


Here I tell a little story:

Mr Developer decides to build an urbanisation of villas. He gets his licencia de obras and begins work. When he finishes building the villas he puts in his application to the town hall for the LFO, knowing full well that this will take a few weeks/months to be approved as this is normal in Spain.

The Local Authority are in the process of issuing the LFOs to Mr Developer´s villas when along comes Mr Smarties. Mr Smarties falls in love with one of the villas and pays a deposit to reserve one. Mr Smarties then goes onto the BE forum and receives lots of well meaning advice about breaking the law, fires burning down his neighbours houses, not getting connected to electricy and water, & not being able to sell his house in the future.

Naturally Mr Smarties begins to panic and wonder what the hell he has got himself into, so instead of just waiting for the LFO he backs out of the deal and loses his 3000 euros deposit.

Mr Developer can´t quite understand what caused Mr Smarties to pull out as he knows he has built some perfectly legal villas, but he thinks oh well, I got 3000 euros out of it.

Two weeks later Mr Developer sells Mr Smarties´ villa to someone else and the local authority issue the LFO pretty much when expected.

Meanwhile, Mr Smarties is back at square one and the members of BE forum are feeling smug that their "advice" saved Mr Smarties from making some horrible mistake.



So what is the moral of the story? Don´t overreact. Don´t assume that every villa built in Spain is illegally built. If you have any doubts about the the LFO being issued, then just wait until it is before you complete.

DO NOT pull out of the sale and lose 3000 euros because of some duff scaremonging advice you read on a forum.


If Smarties comes back with some genuinely concerning information (eg, no licencia de obras, people on the urbi have been waiting 12 months for LFOs, etc) then I will happily eat my words. But at this moment in time I see nothing but total normality.

Now I´d like to see a little bit of RATIONAL support and advice for someone who is about to give up on their dream because of what you have written.
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Old Mar 15th 2007, 11:52 pm
  #54  
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Default Re: Licence of first occupation

Originally Posted by keithwalters View Post
Mitzipurr, you mentioned "licence to build". Smarties question was about the LFO, not the licencia de obras.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the villas in Chiclana were lacking the licencia de obras and are therefore naturally illegal.

JDR - I´ve never heard about the LFOs being given by default. That´s a new one on me.

As for the solicitor, yes of course get an independant one. But (without checking all the way back through the thread) I don´t think Smarties has told us that his solicitor ISNT independant.

What alarms me the most is the fact that Smarties gives us a scenario in which there is nothing untoward (although, granted, we don´t know the whole story), receives "advice" which causes him to panic and consider backing out of the purchase of his dream villa, and I feel like I am the only one trying to encourage rational thinking!


Here I tell a little story:

Mr Developer decides to build an urbanisation of villas. He gets his licencia de obras and begins work. When he finishes building the villas he puts in his application to the town hall for the LFO, knowing full well that this will take a few weeks/months to be approved as this is normal in Spain.

The Local Authority are in the process of issuing the LFOs to Mr Developer´s villas when along comes Mr Smarties. Mr Smarties falls in love with one of the villas and pays a deposit to reserve one. Mr Smarties then goes onto the BE forum and receives lots of well meaning advice about breaking the law, fires burning down his neighbours houses, not getting connected to electricy and water, & not being able to sell his house in the future.

Naturally Mr Smarties begins to panic and wonder what the hell he has got himself into, so instead of just waiting for the LFO he backs out of the deal and loses his 3000 euros deposit.

Mr Developer can´t quite understand what caused Mr Smarties to pull out as he knows he has built some perfectly legal villas, but he thinks oh well, I got 3000 euros out of it.

Two weeks later Mr Developer sells Mr Smarties´ villa to someone else and the local authority issue the LFO pretty much when expected.

Meanwhile, Mr Smarties is back at square one and the members of BE forum are feeling smug that their "advice" saved Mr Smarties from making some horrible mistake.



So what is the moral of the story? Don´t overreact. Don´t assume that every villa built in Spain is illegally built. If you have any doubts about the the LFO being issued, then just wait until it is before you complete.

DO NOT pull out of the sale and lose 3000 euros because of some duff scaremonging advice you read on a forum.


If Smarties comes back with some genuinely concerning information (eg, no licencia de obras, people on the urbi have been waiting 12 months for LFOs, etc) then I will happily eat my words. But at this moment in time I see nothing but total normality.

Now I´d like to see a little bit of RATIONAL support and advice for someone who is about to give up on their dream because of what you have written.
Good points keith ..
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Old Mar 15th 2007, 11:54 pm
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Default Re: Licence of first occupation

Rational you are right keithwalters!


Use a UK lawyer.

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Old Mar 16th 2007, 7:51 am
  #56  
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Default Re: Licence of first occupation

Good points Keith, but he asked for advice of which he is getting.
The main point is never use a lawyer that is sleeping with the builder etc.
There are so many things you must be very careful with and licences are the most important as you know, without licences you will get a very expensive headache.
I am just pointing out the vast scale of corruption that is involved in the building industry in Spain and to be very very careful before letting them relieve you of your money.

Re the licence by default HERE the link is on this post, I know you are going to say "Oh thats Marbella" but it is an Andalusian thing apparently.
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Old Mar 16th 2007, 9:06 am
  #57  
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Default Re: Licence of first occupation

Originally Posted by jdr View Post
Why not, it is illegal for the builder to sell a property to live in if it has not got a habitation licence.
You will find now it is getting very difficult to get a mortgage unless it is in place, things are changing from the old days cos so many people have come unstuck.
I have been offered the mortgage already, applied about 2 weeks ago and had the official thumbs up already!
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Old Mar 16th 2007, 9:19 am
  #58  
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Default Re: Licence of first occupation

Smarty....just listen to all those who say get an independent solicitor.
I went through agonies after we completed on our house, and found this forum. We have no LFO. We were built under a Licence de Obra Nueva. We are not on a large urbanisation. We are legal and have legal elex.
I know there are so many variables. It's all a bit of a gamble.
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Old Mar 16th 2007, 9:26 am
  #59  
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Default Re: Licence of first occupation

Originally Posted by keithwalters View Post

Here I tell a little story:

Mr Developer decides to build an urbanisation of villas. He gets his licencia de obras and begins work. When he finishes building the villas he puts in his application to the town hall for the LFO, knowing full well that this will take a few weeks/months to be approved as this is normal in Spain.

The Local Authority are in the process of issuing the LFOs to Mr Developer´s villas when along comes Mr Smarties. Mr Smarties falls in love with one of the villas and pays a deposit to reserve one. Mr Smarties then goes onto the BE forum and receives lots of well meaning advice about breaking the law, fires burning down his neighbours houses, not getting connected to electricy and water, & not being able to sell his house in the future.

Naturally Mr Smarties begins to panic and wonder what the hell he has got himself into, so instead of just waiting for the LFO he backs out of the deal and loses his 3000 euros deposit.

Mr Developer can´t quite understand what caused Mr Smarties to pull out as he knows he has built some perfectly legal villas, but he thinks oh well, I got 3000 euros out of it.

Two weeks later Mr Developer sells Mr Smarties´ villa to someone else and the local authority issue the LFO pretty much when expected.

Meanwhile, Mr Smarties is back at square one and the members of BE forum are feeling smug that their "advice" saved Mr Smarties from making some horrible mistake.

If Smarties comes back with some genuinely concerning information (eg, no licencia de obras, people on the urbi have been waiting 12 months for LFOs, etc) then I will happily eat my words. But at this moment in time I see nothing but total normality.

Now I´d like to see a little bit of RATIONAL support and advice for someone who is about to give up on their dream because of what you have written.
Thanks very much for the time taken to type all this mate

I reckon you are right. I will at least ask the question "has the LFO been applied for already. The solicitor thing probably should bother me but in all honesty it is a massive company I am buying through who lead you by the hand through the whole thing, costs more but I would expect that for a complete package. I have met the CE of the company when I had a complaint on the inspection visit and have fired off an email to him asking him for his thoughts and guarantees on this LFO business so will post more when I get that from him. For now I wont be too worried as Keith here has managed to keep me focused. Its true buying in Spain or anywhere else is fraught with problems and for me to pull out at this first potential problem would probably be a mistake. It certainly wouldnt show stamina like most of you sat over there have got in bundles. No one would ever move I guess if they quit at the first sign of trouble would they.

No, I will arrive next Tuesday and have a sniff around on this and other issues. Speak to as many on the urb as I can and see where that leads me.

Thanks all for the comments, really appreciated
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Old Mar 16th 2007, 11:46 am
  #60  
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Default Re: Licence of first occupation

Here is the response from the CE of the company I am buying from:


"Hi Steve ,

Thanks for you email.

We will certainly see you into your property at “ moving in “ and arrange Electric and Water utilities. Until such time as the whole development is connected you will be on a supply of both offered by the builder. The good news regarding this is that it´s FREE … I “ enjoyed it for a year !

The delay in issuing the LFO is not a problem, indeed it is normal here. In 99% of the completions the LFO is not collected at the notary, instead it arrives a few months later. This will not affect the issuance of an insurance policy for your property as the insurance companies are aware of the delay re LFO´s.

Please be assured that, while the above may sound “ alien “ to what would normally be expected in the UK, it is common practice not only along this coastline but the whole of Spain.

I do hope this gives you the reassurance you require, however we can discuss the matters in greater detail when you are next here."
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