spainrico

The Local is running an article explaining that non EU persons need a 'Carta de invitacion' which costs around 80€ (!!) to authorise friends/family to come and stay in your house -

https://www.thelocal.es/20210524/car...stay-with-you/

(will open but you might get a subscription banner over the top)

https://balcellsgroup.com/invitation...to_enter_Spain

A friend of mine has checked this with the UK Embassy and they confirmed this procedure is in existence and now applies to the UK. What is unknown is if/when Spanish immigration will apply it.

http://www.interior.gob.es/web/servi...-de-invitacion

bobd22

I have seen this elsewhere a number of times. It would seem that it started with a comment made by an unknown Spanish official. I understand that it has been in existence for many years, not all Schengen countries choose to implement this but seemingly Spain and France have chosen to implement it. For me bearing in mind that Spain has signed up to the European Convention on Human Rights surely this action conflicts with Article 8 Right to family life and privacy? Having family to visit and stay in my private house is surely my business? I just don't get this and how it can be allowed. You don't need a visa to visit but you need this which has to be formally applied for at a police station you have to prove you own your property you are also responsible for your visitors financially and should they not leave by the 90 day point etc. Strikes me as undue interference by the government. Of course Spain may have implemented this in theory do they actually use it on entry ? That's the unknown as surely the non EU queues would be endless. Most I get from Spanish officials at border control is a nod to say you can come to the desk and a nod to say now go through. I suppose time will tell as always .

spainrico

Yes, no one is saying it has just come into existence now the Brits are non-EU - and I agree with your comments. Now the Brits are arriving in droves we shall see.

Reminds me of when I went to the USA years ago to visit a friend, not a package deal - you needed proof of funds, address where you were staying and a return ticket, and proof of employment in the UK.

Given the disgusting way the UK has (allegedly) been treating some visiting Spaniards according to UK newspapers, this might be the tool they use to retaliate.

bobd22

I get that, re how UK treats immigrants however the cases I've read on that (I could be wrong) it has been in relation to people coming for work? I have also seen comments like I hope the. UK reciprocates in kind etc, that helps no one as always two wrongs don't make a right. I also wouldn't object to having to produce a simple letter or email text or whatever with my details to say I had invited a family member or friend to visit. However if one looks into this carta de invitación it is quite convoluted and can entail interviews etc. It is also expensive as you pointed out to be honest changing to a TIE seems easier and less expensive. I also wouldn't object to this if say it was a family member coming to stay with me with the intention of applying for residency and using my address until they could sort out permanent accommodation but for a weeks holiday this is simply ridiculous. Here's a piece on it from CAB, I tend to agree with it.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.es/ca...ping-dogs-lie/

DLC

The CAB says this:

Why would there be formal notification of anything? Does every law which has applied to non-EU nationals for years suddenly need formal notification about whether or not it applies for British citizens? It applies. If you're visiting a country and the border police asks you to prove where you're staying, you'd better be able to.

bobd22

I think the point they are making is the quote they give by a Spanish official.
A quote from a Spanish regional government official when asked about the published news “A UK national can visit Spain for 90 days in any 180 day period visa free and no “carta de invitación” is required”. (to date that appears to be the case). He added “porque los guiris quieren complicar todo”.
It's all new at the moment because we've only just left the EU and I think if you turn the clock back a few weeks no one using this site were aware of this rule. I just think it should be clarified by governments whether we need it or not.

Barriej

Dont know why they just dont use the Arrivals Card in the EU then, as most other countries do.
Its both a customs form and a locator (and is a legal document). Ive filled out loads over the years, simple to do and easily checked.
And seeing as its a worldwide document, would be simple to include on all flights.

My 2c which probably isn't worth that anyway.

bobd22

Sounds reasonable to me.

gill556

I helped my friend to try and get one when her Vietnamese daughter in law brought her son from a previous relationship. They had no problem prior when they brought their child from their marriage but the young lad was a different scenario. When I asked the police why they needed one for a 10 year old boy the reply was that he may be coming to work and wouldn’t return to UK. We couldn’t get an appointment in time, they had already spent £800 on flights <snipped> This forum does not encourage or condone people suggesting ways around legal necessities.

DLC

They're not going to say that it will never be needed for British citizens as it's another tool in the border guard's toolbox.

Also it wouldn't be the first time that there's a difference between what ministers say and what border guards do. The UK government website and ministers in the UK have said visiting the UK for a job interview is okay but EU citizens are being turned away at the UK border or held in detention because they say they're visiting for a job interview.

And if, for example, a Spanish border guard is having a bad day and has seen enough of Spanish citizens being turned away from the UK, he might just decide to ask for that proof of hotel booking or that letter.

bobd22

I don't disagree with anything that you say above. I don't have any issue with people having to say where they are going to be staying what I disagree with is the bureaucratic method that may be used. Fine to ask people where they are staying and even to show say an invite with even a contact number that they can phone and check with as presumably they can do with a hotel or guesthouse booking? I don't though see how the onus cost and responsibility for the visitor should fall on the homeowner and not the visitor. No one knows if or when this may be imposed or become an issue as you say its a tool in the box of spanish authorities no legislation or law should in my view simply be brought in and used like that. If there is a law it should apply fairly to all. If say someone had said yes I have somewhere to stay and a few days later are found sleeping on the street OK legally deal with that person not the homeowner. Are they going to stop people having backpacking holidays? Or people doing the pilgrimage walks which brings huge numbers of tourists etc who may not know which hostel they can reach each day. A synical person may see this as a way to drive people to pay for hotels rather than simply have people or family visit. I consider my family and friends being able to visit me without hinderence a right of my choice and freedom of course yes I accept that the visitorshould comply with immigration rules as required. To that end then countries as some do should have visa rules. In this case Spain doesn't but has a vague backdoor rule for the homeowner which may or may not be used. For me that isn't right and doesn't make sense. Our opinions obviously differ.
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bobd22

By the way my view isn't just re British Citizens my view refers to any nationality that on one hand is told for short visits you don't need a visa but we may use this equally complicated means of messing your host about and get some money out of them. Reason this has come to light to British people is because they never ever knew about it until a few weeks ago. Someone dug it out and it is now panicking many British. I would guess 95% of people using this forum would have known not a jot about this 2 weeks ago. I am not a Brit who thinks rules should only apply to foreigners, I just want to be able to have my family and friends stay with me for a few days without undue interference or worry.

growinspain

The rule is there for all 3rd world nationals entering the EU. I have always stayed in a hotel upon arrival so have not needed this form but have been asked were I would be staying or doing - flying on a one-way ticket or return flight from an non EU country did not help but I answered the questions truthfully so was allowed in. Point being, the rule is there, now it includes the Brits. As this is Spain, each department, city, village will all have different rules so you either have to ask at the local town hall and pay, forget about it and nothing comes of it or have your friends and family turned away from entering the EU from a 3rd world country without this form.

growinspain

When does the new system for air travel come into force here in the EU. Like the one in the USA where everyone registers before coming and I think pays a small fee ( here in the EU)

This might be the start of this directive ( letter of invitation) towards the people from the UK and add another hassle being 3rd worlds.

bobd22

Again I don't anything I have said disagrees with your comment? The point is you visited and stayed in hotels you say flying on a one way ticket. The onus was on you to prove where you were staying and I can see to an official that a one way ticket would flag up a question and concern. The point I'm making is that when it's my family home the onus and cost switches to me rather than the visitor to the country. What one chooses to do re this is their individual concern.
Also it's not an issue that the Town Hall deal with a Carta De Invitacion is a formal process dealt with by the police.