ramsis2

I bought a country house in order to open a legal B&B in Andalusia a couple of years ago. I wanted to set up a business legally and I thought that I was doing everything correctly. A few years have passed, I still have no permit but am now earning good reputation. Then the other day, I received a letter says that I have been denounced and am due to be fined with over 1000 euros.
I collect IVA and pay this to the Hacienda, and I also pay my income tax. I feel a little disappointed that they would like to punish me this way.
I have to say that I did not know that you do not need an opening license to run a B&B or casa rural but need to register with the Junta. I acted as soon as I got to know about this information that I needed to apply for the registration. But this also has been taking a long time to complete.
Is there anybody out there who is experiencing the same problem ? I have been told by the Guardia Civil that they are trying to find people who are letting their primary homes or are running B&Bs without permit or registration.
I really would like to hear from these people to share information or help, or grief ! Please, get in touch !! Thank you.

jdr

I thought it was obvious that if you run a Hotel, B+B or suchlike it would have to be registered and checked out for the local fire and health and safety regulations ?

agoreira

Indeed, and I think the OP must have known they were taking a bit of a risk if they had not been cleared by these people. The OP is probably running a perfectly good B&B, but it's an area that definitely needs some serious looking into, there must be thousands of illegal B&B's around Spain that don't meet the basic fire, H&S regulations. It would be incredibly easy for the authorities to just browse through all the holiday brochures, internet etc and then check out to see if the places advertised are kosher. Probably easier to turn a blind eye though!

Sharon B

Have you actually applied for a permit? I applied for a license for my business and was told to go ahead of the opening as the process of actually getting the license can take up to a year. The Town Hall were aware of my application and were putting the process through in their own time and were aware that I was open. This is the same for a number of businesses around here so I presume once again it depends on your area.

ramsis2

Hello, thank you for your message.
I applied for a permit, an opening license as soon as I bought the finca and it has been more than 4 years.
Town hall issued me an official certificate stating that I am following a legal procedure to the Junta when I found myself being denounced.
So, town hall or the opening licence is not the problem. It is the Junta which is trying to punish me for not completing the registration before I could run the B&B legally.
I just do not what to do, who to turn to now. Thanks.

missile

Presumably you have someone who does your tax? He ought to know the system and be able to advise you

ramsis2

Thank you for your kind message. We have an excellent accountant. The trouble is although we are legal Spanish company, as far as the tourism department of Junta de Andalusia is concerned, our business is not properly registered with them. Hacienda is happy because we collect IVAs for them !

I have heard that there are a lot of British residents running a B&B without an opening license or a registraiton with the Junta, or even without letting the local council know, so I am sure there are people out there who are going through a similar headache as I am !
Maybe I should not have bothered to run my B&B legally at all !

ramsis2

Good point
Oh, yes indeed we have had an inspector and a technical architect from the region's Architecture and Town Planning Dept and carried out a very strict inspection. Then they write to you via the town hall to let you know what needs to be done next. They checked out all our building project, Proyecto de actuacion, original plans of the finca etc.... It is a very long, complicated process. We are therefore still waiting to receive an opening license which the town hall has promised.

If there is anybody out there who is letting his/her home, especially B&Bs, please read below.
I would not wish on anyone to have to go through what I am going through. I had even a lawyer helping me with the license issue but she did not find out about the fact that I only had to turn to the Junta in the first place.
Please, register your holiday let or B&B now before you receive a letter from the Junta with a heavy fine.

Business permit or opening license is obtained through the local council and
its and the area's Town Planning department But if one wants to run a tourist establishment like a B&B or holiday let, it is regulated by the tourism department of Junta de Andalucia. In theory, you only need to apply to the Junta to register your property, i.e. unless you are running a HOTEL, you don't really need to apply for an opening license, as long as you register your property with the Junta. Self-catering properties are very easy to register, with hardly any difficulties, as you cannot offer any services to the public. But with the B&Bs, you have to present a lot more paper work, such project, plans, property tax document, water certificate, habitation certificate etc etc.

For more information on registration issues, please visit this link.

http://www.juntadeandalucia.es/turis...s-turismo.html

missile

I would suggest an "excellent accountant" ought to have known the requirements and advised you better.

There are a lot of brits breaking the law in the UK too

Casa Santo Estevo

I have had this discussion with someone quite recently about them wanting to start an illegal B&B in Galicia. Why would they want too I do not know.
I am sorry that you thought you were going through the right hoops. And hopefully you can manage to sort this problem out.
I once added a link to a posting from someone in you neck of the woods who wished to start up a Casa Rural. I managed to find a good lot of information about what permissions you need. I cannot find that thread as it was some time ago. I cannot do a search with all the threads I have posted on, so it is nearly impossible to find now.
So I went back to the Junta’s website to find the information again.
There was a section in English but that seems to have disappeared. So here are some links these are in Spanish

http://www.juntadeandalucia.es/turismocomercioydeporte/turismocomercioydeporte/opencms/normativas/normativa/turismo/normativa_0028.html

http://www.juntadeandalucia.es/turis...tiva_0022.html

This is a list of document pertinent to Casa Rural.

http://www.juntadeandalucia.es/busca...ollection=ctcd

Now you need good advice so go to your Gestoriar and find out how they can help you as it may not be as bad as first seems. They could close you down so a 1000€ seems quite light in relative terms.

Do not forget you will also need to have a food handler’s cert too. Once you are registered you will have to inform the GC of who stays with you too. Maybe you should ask them how you go about that in Andalusia.

Casa Santo Estevo

I think you are getting a bit muddled up.
The Junta regulates the building as a Casa Rural.
The Tax office has nothing to do with that side of things. If you do not pay your taxes and run a fully illegal Casa Rural then maybe you would be fined for non-payment of taxes, or worse imprisonment. Added to your house having illegal status. God knows where it would have ended.

ramsis2

Hello, very kind person. Thank you for your support and for all the useful information you have kindly provided.
I hope and I am sure that a lot of people will find it helpful.

Yes, I have submitted all the necessary applications to the Junta under the Tourism laws, about 5 months ago, so all is in the hands of Junta to complete the registration for me. The acknowledgement letter from the Junta reached me a few weeks ago, so I am sure that I am hopeful.

In the meantime, I am also appealing to them if they could reduce the fine but I am very realistic about this. As you said, it is better than being close down.

Thanks again for your kind words and support.

ramsis2

I am certainly not the expert, that is why it is how it is for me but as far as I can understand from the officials from my local town hall, Junta regulates the tourism establishments in general - building and businesses, but buildings are regulated by the Arquitectura y Urbanismo of Delegacion de provincia.

What I am saying is that I am or my s.l. is obliged to follow the business and accounting laws just like any other businesses in Spain and tax office is fully satisfied. The accountant I had the first time was recommended by a several British, but he just was not doing anything - missed the deadlines etc (it is another bad luck) so I have found the current one who took over the mess and she has now straightened my books.

So, I am hoping to hear something from the Junta.

Casa Santo Estevo

I do not know all the laws relating to Casa Rurals in Andalusia, in fact I could not quote you every single one for Galicia where we are based. Like I said the tax office is different to the Junta and the same with the local “concello” too.
The Junta no doubt has its rules in place. For example here in Galicia they detail the size of rooms, the amount of space for public areas, disabled facilities and a lot lot more. We are inspected twice a year too. Maybe the rules down south are similar.
Getting the right support in running a business is important here in Spain. It sounds as if the first guy was rubbish and that is maybe where things went wrong.
I am afraid to say that in Spain paperwork can take years to come through. So you have to be patient with that. And without those papers you cannot operate. It all seems so unfair but there is nothing anyone can do.

ramsis2

Hello Casa Santo Estevo ,
It is nice to know that you have taken your time to give me support and advice, I really appreciate it. I cannot thank you enough.
You are right that some of the rules that we need to follow in Andalusia do not seem that different to your region. Our smallest room is just over 10sqm and is just qualified as a small double room under the regulations.
Yes, we need a lot of patience and a good team of professional people who could put me in the right directions. I have even a friend who works at the Junta, who is helping me to make an appeal. I just hope that I was well-informed by my first lawyer, accountant, gestor or the town hall when I made the initial enquiries. It seems that wherever I looked around for proper advice, I was given a wrong information.
Thank you.