lynnxa

that's a really great way of learning - it will be slow - but it will work

one of my students has been coming to weekly group classes erratically for about 18 months - so he's had maybe 50 hours total of actual lessons (probably less, I'm being generous)

we've just started last week after a month break - someone switched his Spanish on

apparently he's been making an effort to speak to Spanish people - or at least listen to them ............. he said he would hear something we've done, realise he understood it & try to join in - the improvement is incredible

when we first start I tell them that I will teach them the tools they need, & we'll practise during the classes - but that they will learn more quickly if they actually use it outside of the lessons

one hour a week isn't much, or enough if you want to learn quickly - but it's often all they are able/willing to devote to learning the language

Domino

well rather than go down other avenues that have been mentioned here from time to time, I felt the only way to learn was to use phrases in real life. As you say, can be slow, but I have found it also gives the confidence to go further, extend the learning.
As I have said previously, its fine learning to conjugate verbs but if you can't ask for a cup of coffee after the session you switch off.

children learn language in a mist of sound, picking up things in real life, get used to using words in particular situations. I am trying to emulate this to some extent, but as you say - it will take time, no uk sat, streaming, etc etc, matching the short write ups on screen with the Spanish TV news helps.

lynnxa

I totally agree - no amount of grammar learning will get you speaking Spanish

you need to actually speak - add some lessons & guidance & you'll get there pretty qiuckly

agoreira

Yes, a bit of both in my opinion, speaking and some verb structures. It depends on how serious you are about learning, we have had people leave a class because they didn't want to be "conjugating verbs", others can't get enough of it. I have met people that speak pretty good Spanish, but ask them to read/write some Spanish, say something that happened last week/next week, they simply haven't a clue. Depends on the level you want to attain, but if you are serious, boring, verb structure drills are essential. Without it you won't have a clue what sepa, vaya, haya, quepo etc mean.

Domino

fine, but does that give you the cafe con leche afterwards ?
and what if you wanted sugar and there isnt any ?
and did u fancy a donut or other cake ?
surely it depends on the level of the individual, who has to be honest with him/herself as to what they want and how they see themselves getting there, in the same way as the tutor has to be honest with them as to how they can and will be able to assist in acheiving those goals.
To become a translator is alot different to being able to go out for the evening and get a meal.

practical use of the knowledge gained inspires confidence in the individual, even if it is in short bursts, which is why I am using situational learning. Each situation is requisite to my activity at that time. BUT time and effort has to go into the responses you may well meet ...
such as when asking for pork chops in the butchers - expect to be asked how many and be able to respond accordingly.
also when being asked algo mas be able to say nada mas otherwise your unwitting tutor will be left perplexed.

I find I also use the old favourite gracias alot, not sure that Spaniards do, but thats just me.

Lynn R

Lots of "conjugating verbs" can be really boring, but IMHO you do need to learn them. They are the building blocks around which you can construct sentences. It's a good start to learn how to say "I want xxxx" or "I like xxxx" but you also need to be able to ask "do you want xxx?" or "we like xxx". Learning the verb conjugations is what allows you do to that. That's how my Spanish teacher introduced them, she would write down all the forms of the present tense (to start with) and then get us to make up sentences using each one, for practice. It does get them to stick. If you have a text book you could do that yourself at home. It does feel a bit like going back to school, but in a way that's just what we are doing.

me me

If people don't learn to conjugate verbs in a structured way, they will alway be in the "Yo bocadillo" stage of learning.

Domino

sometimes it is the speak that causes the problem not the word
to me the Spanish seem to talk more inside the throat whilst most English is inside the mouth.
may not seem any different but makes so much difference to being uderstood.
although the different inflections put on certain letters, only in certain words, can also be a stumbling block.

Even if practice doesnt make perfect it should make for better understanding.

cricketman

I'm not sure about that, but it is true that Spanish uses different parts of the mouth and your tongue has to different things than when speaking English

With Spanish you have to open your mouth to give you a chance to say the different vowels clearly

Many English people speak with a very closed mouth with all the vowels coming out as a "urgh" sound. Like Wut-urgh, But-urgh, etc

If you speak like that in Spanish then it is impossible to be understood

Domino

thanks CM, now I understand why some conversations are totally indecipherable, not a single known word being used, the Spanish have as many bad speaking gits as the English.

agoreira

We had a teacher that used to drill us in all the various verb structures relentlessly, and God was it boring!! Once we got a hang of the easy one's, then all the irregulars were introduced, and then when we thought we'd cracked it, he introduced the subjunctive! Incredibly boring, but of course now I can see the importance of it all, there was light at the end of the tunnel. But as we've said, that's just one part of the learning process, it has to be done in conjunction with all the other bits, speaking, comprehension, vocabulary etc. I knew a guy that could rattle off all the verb structures, all the tenses, all the irregulars, but could hardly string a sentence together. A good teacher will incorporate all this into their classes.

mikelincs

I wouldn't use songs as a way of learning as in almost all languages the pronunciation of words in songs is much different to the spoken word, letters normally not pronounced are pronounced etc, vowels at the end of words which would normally be silent are often pronounced, it's true in most languages, I was told this when learning Russian and French, and when singing Russsian songs in a choir. Sometimes the TV means goes a bit haywire as well as if the person uses a regional dialect, then they may use shortened forms of the word, especially if they get excited during a news event etc.

lynnxa

yes, you do need to learn to conjugate verbs.............. I just don't always tell them that that's what they're doing

Lynn R

Yes - if you use each form of the verb to construct a simple sentence, and one which you could envisage being useful in a conversation, you combine the verb with a bit of vocabulary you might already know, or a few new words. It makes it seem more meaningful than just rote learning of conjugations (although we probably all learned our times tables that way, and I bet we can still do multiplication in our heads better than younger people who didn't learn like that!). Combining the correct form of the verb with another verb in the infinitive (sorry I can't think of a less dry way of saying it!) can help you build up slightly more complex frases, as my Spanish teacher called them, eg voy a ir, tiene que hacer, queremos decir, etc.

Domino

I have to agree.
I have heard some really excellent covers of UK/US songs by for example HK Chinese singers who when you actually speak to them face to face can hardly string 2 words of English together, even when they can they cannot say the words in conversation as they sing them
But if used properly can help with the diction, just so rarely is as it is just a copy without realising we actually do speak like that.

However, BBC World Service has been immensely successful in helping many peoples around the world to "join the club".
such a shame it is such a political pawn.