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Lack of bribery in Spain

Lack of bribery in Spain

Old Jul 10th 2013, 10:32 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Lack of bribery in Spain

Well done, Cman, somebody needs to fly the flag for Spain.

Someone famous did 400 years ago, didn't he? Don Quixote, a proud Spanish nobleman, tilting alone against the wicked world.

And I'm not being facetious, I've got the book on my shelf, both in English and Spanish, and still read it at times.
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Old Jul 10th 2013, 10:57 pm
  #17  
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Default Re: Lack of bribery in Spain

For anyone who lives here (qualify: at least in my neighbourhood) to suggest that under the table activities or payments or any such behaviour is somehow less frequent here than say, UK or Germany or the US would be the equivalent of stating that rocks float on water.

C'mon. Failing any "Above the table" means of getting things, it's always possible to get almost anything if you're prepared to grease the right axles with cash. Often, it is done in perfectly legal, albeit unorthodox ways.

But if you're only trying to prove that everywhere else is crap, then it sounds good, anyway.
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 12:04 am
  #18  
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Default Re: Lack of bribery in Spain

Originally Posted by amideislas
But if you're only trying to prove that everywhere else is crap, then it sounds good, anyway.
No, I am suggesting that many of the usual suspects on here have opinions more grounded with bigotry rather than on any reality of the situation

When any survey, research or evidence goes against your views you simply call it rubbish. The other day you even refuted that Spanish couples had one of the lowest birth rates in the world and stated that everyone knows that the Spanish have large families

Of course I am wasting my breath, in that way, yes indeed HBG, trying to educate British expats is wonderfully Quixotic
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 12:24 am
  #19  
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Default Re: Lack of bribery in Spain

Originally Posted by cricketman
No, I am suggesting that many of the usual suspects on here have opinions more grounded with bigotry rather than on any reality of the situation

When any survey, research or evidence goes against your views you simply call it rubbish. The other day you even refuted that Spanish couples had one of the lowest birth rates in the world and stated that everyone knows that the Spanish have large families

Of course I am wasting my breath, in that way, yes indeed HBG, trying to educate British expats is wonderfully Quixotic
Here's a statistic for you: Some damned good arguments which renders those statistics pretty questionable have already been offered here, but ironically you also choose to ignore them, presumably only because you want so badly to believe it.

I can produce just as many statistics (both credible and not-at-all-credible) that would equally "prove" that Spain is amongst the most corrupt countries in Europe, and has amongst the largest black economies (suggesting there's all kinds of brown envelope stuff going on), plus, I myself have necessarily been obliged to engage in such things from time to time as a normal course of life here. Things which, in the UK or Germany would have been considered pretty toxic, but here, it's just the way you get stuff done. Surely you'd poo-poo on those things too.

By the way, I didn't refute anything. I only asked if you were one of the .2 offspring you so proudly provided stats to prove are the norm in Spain, which, taking into account your long history of self-embarassments, seemed to me to be a perfectly rational question. Besides, you took the whole thing much too seriously and decided to use it as yet another opportunity to exhibit your famous self-righteousness.

And here we are again - it's no surprise that just as you start to look rather desperate, you play the "racist" card. Again.

So which of us is being hypocritical?

Last edited by amideislas; Jul 11th 2013 at 1:06 am.
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 12:29 am
  #20  
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Default Re: Lack of bribery in Spain

Can I just point out that it's a "Perception" index and it is compiled by sending out questionnaires. Does anyone need me to point out the flaw in any of that?
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 12:50 am
  #21  
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Default Re: Lack of bribery in Spain

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
Can I just point out that it's a "Perception" index and it is compiled by sending out questionnaires. Does anyone need me to point out the flaw in any of that?
I would say it's more likely an index of who tells the most porkies, the lowest numbers coming top of the league.
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 4:24 am
  #22  
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Default Re: Lack of bribery in Spain

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
Can I just point out that it's a "Perception" index and it is compiled by sending out questionnaires. Does anyone need me to point out the flaw in any of that?
Part of my work is designing market research projects

They are not perfect of course, but to question the results you have to ask yourself why Spanish people would be more likely than British people to deny that bribery goes on.

From my experience of comparing country on country results, there is rarely any crazy explanations for differences in the numbers.

I am truely surprised by the results of this study, which made me question whether actually the British people on here (there are no Spaniards, only one who was actually brought up British) are perhaps mistaken

Remember we are talking about daily bribery to access public services, not other types of corruption.

In my six years I have never come across any bribery, and my Spanish wife has not either, or even heard of it, in her entire life
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 4:37 am
  #23  
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Default Re: Lack of bribery in Spain

Originally Posted by cricketman
Part of my work is designing market research projects

They are not perfect of course, but to question the results you have to ask yourself why Spanish people would be more likely than British people to deny that bribery goes on.

From my experience of comparing country on country results, there is rarely any crazy explanations for differences in the numbers.

I am truely surprised by the results of this study, which made me question whether actually the British people on here (there are no Spaniards, only one who was actually brought up British) are perhaps mistaken

Remember we are talking about daily bribery to access public services, not other types of corruption.

In my six years I have never come across any bribery, and my Spanish wife has not either, or even heard of it, in her entire life
I think the suggestion being made in most of the posts here, and it's my experience as well, is that what would be described as bribery in the UK is just the way things are naturally done here and therefore, if asked if they had paid a bribe, a Spanish person would say no because that's the way they see it - it's not a bribe - it's just what you do.
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 4:49 am
  #24  
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Default Re: Lack of bribery in Spain

Originally Posted by cricketman
Part of my work is designing market research projects

They are not perfect of course, but to question the results you have to ask yourself why Spanish people would be more likely than British people to deny that bribery goes on.

From my experience of comparing country on country results, there is rarely any crazy explanations for differences in the numbers.

I am truely surprised by the results of this study, which made me question whether actually the British people on here (there are no Spaniards, only one who was actually brought up British) are perhaps mistaken

Remember we are talking about daily bribery to access public services, not other types of corruption.

In my six years I have never come across any bribery, and my Spanish wife has not either, or even heard of it, in her entire life
Jeezus. This is "market research" to you?

Other than that American guy I mentioned earlier, I haven't ever heard of it either, because frankly, I'm not sure why you would need to bribe anyone to access public services, unless you weren't a legal resident, and didn't bother to become one (or cannot).

But that wouldn't have much to do with Spanish citizens at all, would it? So it stands to reason that virtually all foreigners would rate higher in that category - not that it means anything at all. Besides it's technically just an opinion poll having little to do with anything, and in one way of looking at it, only pointing out the bleedin' obviously pointless.

About the same as sensationalising the fact that people born and raised in Germany are more likely not to speak native Spanish than Spaniards. Statistics prove it!

I can't help but suspect this thread is just another failed attempt to suggest how Brits and Americans are far less "good" in some way, rather than anything to do with bribery or corruption or anything else.

Of course, if it were you saying this to me, you'd add the fact that my motives are "racist". But I don't think that about you. I think you just don't realise how stupid everyone else isn't.

Last edited by amideislas; Jul 11th 2013 at 5:17 am.
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 5:39 am
  #25  
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Default Re: Lack of bribery in Spain

Originally Posted by cricketman
Part of my work is designing market research projects

They are not perfect of course, but to question the results you have to ask yourself why Spanish people would be more likely than British people to deny that bribery goes on.

From my experience of comparing country on country results, there is rarely any crazy explanations for differences in the numbers.

I am truely surprised by the results of this study, which made me question whether actually the British people on here (there are no Spaniards, only one who was actually brought up British) are perhaps mistaken

Remember we are talking about daily bribery to access public services, not other types of corruption.

In my six years I have never come across any bribery, and my Spanish wife has not either, or even heard of it, in her entire life
Did you bother looking into the company that conducted the report into, and I repeat the word... "PERCEPTION" report?
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 7:38 am
  #26  
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Default Re: Lack of bribery in Spain

It's natural for us expats to criticise our host country on occasions, but it's also futile. Without trying to be technical about black money and all the other things that are really none of our business, we are here through choice.

A million of us love our lives in Spain or we wouldn't be here. It hurts me to say this, but if bribery is such a big thing to worry about, you can be back in Gatwick in two hours. Or Frankfurt.

It doesn't bother me at all. I do what Spanish people do, if it's good enough for them in their country, I do the same.

I remember panicking when my newsagent in Benidorm ran out of brown envelopes in the nineties, and I had to travel to Albir to get some.
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 8:01 am
  #27  
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Default Re: Lack of bribery in Spain

Originally Posted by cricketman
Ah, so a Brit is 2.5 times more likely than a Spaniard to resort to bribery to get their public services

And an American is 3.5 times more likely

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23231318

Of course the study is a load of rubbish because people on here know better.
Right?
Of course teamUK were always going to throw their toys out of the pram with a statement like that. Don't you know that the only opinion they can believe is "UK good Spain bad"???? Don't confuse them with actual facts...

Someone on Twitter summed it up best I think
"Explaining the PP crisis to Brits: imagine if the treasurer of the Conservative Party had a huge fortune stashed overseas #ohhangon"
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 11:56 am
  #28  
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Default Re: Lack of bribery in Spain

Originally Posted by cricketman
Ah, so a Brit is 2.5 times more likely than a Spaniard to resort to bribery to get their public services

And an American is 3.5 times more likely

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23231318

Of course the study is a load of rubbish because people on here know better. Right?
There are certainly still a lot of brown envelopes in Spain!!!
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 8:21 pm
  #29  
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Default Re: Lack of bribery in Spain

Originally Posted by HBG
It's natural for us expats to criticise our host country on occasions, but it's also futile. Without trying to be technical about black money and all the other things that are really none of our business, we are here through choice.

A million of us love our lives in Spain or we wouldn't be here. It hurts me to say this, but if bribery is such a big thing to worry about, you can be back in Gatwick in two hours. Or Frankfurt.

It doesn't bother me at all. I do what Spanish people do, if it's good enough for them in their country, I do the same.

I remember panicking when my newsagent in Benidorm ran out of brown envelopes in the nineties, and I had to travel to Albir to get some.
I agree with you completely, HBG.

My problem with this entire debate is that it's really much ado about nothing, and smells very much like a feeble attempt at trolling for another pissing match (and achieving it), citing abstract evidence that "proves" birds are better than biscuits.

On another note, I just read a shocking report that scientists have now proven that water mixed with dirt is mud. I'm considering spinning this revelation into a comparison of Spanish cheese with British chalk and see if we can start another pissing match.

Last edited by amideislas; Jul 11th 2013 at 8:33 pm.
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 8:35 pm
  #30  
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Default Re: Lack of bribery in Spain

Originally Posted by amideislas
citing abstract evidence
Hardly abstract evidence

Market research studies are exactly how things like this are proven. There is no other way, you can hardly go and audit something like bribery. You have to ask for people's opinions and perceptions

The way British expats deny the evidence when it does not back up their world-view reminds me of Freud's definition of denial. Why is it so important for you to put down the country you live in? Why is this so important to your ego? Does it offend your very identity if you admit that even one thing works well or is better in one country than in the country of your birth?

It reeks of massive insecurity - basing your own value on the assumption that everyone else is morally corrupt so by consequence you are amazing

Last edited by cricketman; Jul 11th 2013 at 8:41 pm.
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