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Just had my residency turned down

Just had my residency turned down

Old Jan 28th 2021, 8:54 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Just had my residency turned down

Originally Posted by Silk
Well all I have in that regard is my health insurance policy. Will see what my attorney says.
It would seem logical that a health policy would be accepted but I imagine the officials have been told to weed out persons who have simply visited Spain to acquire TIEs and then returned to UK hoping to exploit things later. So buying a health policy can be easily done, as can opening a bank account and having a rental contract or even a property. Water and electricity bills easily prove existence as they show usage over a period of time and is why they are favoured. I think as your claim is genuine you should be fine but it might take a few more meetings.
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Old Jan 28th 2021, 8:58 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Just had my residency turned down

Thinking about it. If you have been here over a month dont you have an electricity bill? That should prove you were here before cut off date and will demonstrate a reasonable daily use of power. If you dont have one phone them or alternatively wait for your first one.
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Old Jan 28th 2021, 9:02 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Just had my residency turned down

With some rental properties, the utility bill is in the name of the landlord and the renter just reimburses them for usage.
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Old Jan 28th 2021, 9:09 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Just had my residency turned down

Originally Posted by Joppa
With some rental properties, the utility bill is in the name of the landlord and the renter just reimburses them for usage.

If that is the case then it might be hard to convince the official as bank accounts, NIE, healthpolicy, private rental contract, Airbnb records prove nothing as they are not recognised as official documents. You have to prove you were actively living here Before 31st December and that will need to be by something that is recognised as official. I think it will come down to how rigoursly each office is about the rules unfortunately. However persistence usually shows honesty so I would try all routes available
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Old Jan 28th 2021, 9:55 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Just had my residency turned down

Originally Posted by Joppa
With some rental properties, the utility bill is in the name of the landlord and the renter just reimburses them for usage.
My landlord preferred to handle the utilities herself (they own all 4 apartment blocks here I beleive). I guess she saw that as less hassle for herself as I only wanted a 6 month lease to start, with the option to extend.
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Old Jan 29th 2021, 12:34 am
  #36  
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Default Re: Just had my residency turned down

Originally Posted by Silk
My landlord preferred to handle the utilities herself (they own all 4 apartment blocks here I beleive). I guess she saw that as less hassle for herself as I only wanted a 6 month lease to start, with the option to extend.
Whilst the contract would be in her name, the bills should be in yours. Remember that there are two names associated with electricity accounts - the contract owner and the bill payer
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Old Jan 29th 2021, 12:55 am
  #37  
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Default Re: Just had my residency turned down

Originally Posted by Silk
Very good point. My Gestor stated I should provide her with as much evidence as possible and she went on about the Padron. I said I didn't think it wasn't specifically required for application I thought you had up to 90 days from moving into a new area to apply and, if she required it, she should have mentioned it back in mid December when I first contacted her and she agreed to provide her service. So I duly went and registered and provided it as a stamped copy of our application as there is a months delay in getting the Padron at the moment. This obviously shot us in the foot as I have plenty of proof of living here since arriving on the 15th December.
As I've said already, the Spanish authorities are looking to see that you are actually living here.
All the other paperwork is just for the legal hoops. (If I can find it I will post it ) But the wording in the paperwork says something like 'You must demonstrate you are living in spain with day to day outgoings from your bank and can prove an income at the level required'

Easiest thing to do, go to your bank at the end of the month, or even the end of Feb and ask for them to print out a complete statement from the date you opened the account to the day you go in. They will then stamp this and sign it. They will also give you a letter stating that you are the account owner.
This is ALL the proof you need.

If the monthly income or the lump sum is in a different bank you will have to provide the same from them (we had money in Premium bonds but they didn't want that as there was enough in each account) I also gave my private pension letter but that was also returned.

I think your biggest issue is the date you arrived here, and I would assume that anyone else who came over in Dec onward would also be looked at more closely than, say someone like me who got here in August (its not right but Im sure it happens and will continue to do).

Not that it helps your situation but a friend of ours had their residency refused because they couldnt show any transactions (they have a home here and tons of money in the Uk but pay everything in cash). Not to mention they have been here about 10 years without bothering with residency.
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Old Jan 29th 2021, 1:13 am
  #38  
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Default Re: Just had my residency turned down

Originally Posted by Barriej
As I've said already, the Spanish authorities are looking to see that you are actually living here.
All the other paperwork is just for the legal hoops. (If I can find it I will post it ) But the wording in the paperwork says something like 'You must demonstrate you are living in spain with day to day outgoings from your bank and can prove an income at the level required'

Easiest thing to do, go to your bank at the end of the month, or even the end of Feb and ask for them to print out a complete statement from the date you opened the account to the day you go in. They will then stamp this and sign it. They will also give you a letter stating that you are the account owner.
This is ALL the proof you need.

If the monthly income or the lump sum is in a different bank you will have to provide the same from them (we had money in Premium bonds but they didn't want that as there was enough in each account) I also gave my private pension letter but that was also returned.

I think your biggest issue is the date you arrived here, and I would assume that anyone else who came over in Dec onward would also be looked at more closely than, say someone like me who got here in August (its not right but Im sure it happens and will continue to do).

Not that it helps your situation but a friend of ours had their residency refused because they couldnt show any transactions (they have a home here and tons of money in the Uk but pay everything in cash). Not to mention they have been here about 10 years without bothering with residency.
One obvious question: when you were rejected did they give a reason and suggest any remedy?.ie did they tell you to return with more proof or simply say no.
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Old Jan 29th 2021, 2:13 am
  #39  
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Default Re: Just had my residency turned down

Originally Posted by Chipmonk
One obvious question: when you were rejected did they give a reason and suggest any remedy?.ie did they tell you to return with more proof or simply say no.

Resolution NO ADMITIR so basically turned down.

Rough auto translation: FOURTH.- Section f) of point 1 of the fourth additional provision of Organic Law 4/2000, of January 11, on rights and freedoms of foreigners in Spain and their social integration, provides that the competent authority to resolve will inadmit processing of applications in the case of applications that are manifestly unfounded, a circumstance that occurs in the present case as it is not proven that the applicant complies with the requirement established in the second section of the Joint instruction of the General Directorate of Migration and the General Directorate of the Police, which determines the procedure for the issuance of the residence document provided for in article 18.4 of withdrawal

And another autotranslation taken from the organic law 4/2000

https://www.global-regulation.com/tr...social-in.html
Finally incorporated into the law the documents proving the identity of foreigners must be included in the municipal census registration, adapting the rules governing EU citizens to the provisions of Royal Decree 178/2003, of February 14, on entry and residence in Spain of nationals of Member States of the European Union and other States party to the Agreement on the European Economic Area.

So basically they are saying only being registered on the Padron prior to 2021 proves I was living in Spain. So I could have applied on the 24th December if they were open as my lease agreement was signed late on the 23rd but as my gestor failed to bring the fact that I needed to be registered BEFORE 1/1/21 to my attention it wasn't done till January.

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Old Jan 29th 2021, 2:16 am
  #40  
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Default Re: Just had my residency turned down

Originally Posted by Silk
Resolution NO ADMITIR so basically turned down.

Rough auto translation: FOURTH.- Section f) of point 1 of the fourth additional provision of Organic Law 4/2000, of January 11, on rights and freedoms of foreigners in Spain and their social integration, provides that the competent authority to resolve will inadmit processing of applications in the case of applications that are manifestly unfounded, a circumstance that occurs in the present case as it is not proven that the applicant complies with the requirement established in the second section of the Joint instruction of the General Directorate of Migration and the General Directorate of the Police, which determines the procedure for the issuance of the residence document provided for in article 18.4 of withdrawal

And another autotranslation taken from the organic law 4/2000

https://www.global-regulation.com/tr...social-in.html
Finally incorporated into the law the documents proving the identity of foreigners must be included in the municipal census registration, adapting the rules governing EU citizens to the provisions of Royal Decree 178/2003, of February 14, on entry and residence in Spain of nationals of Member States of the European Union and other States party to the Agreement on the European Economic Area.

So basically they are saying only being registered on the Padron prior to 2021 proves I was living in Spain. So I could have applied on the 24th December if they were open as my lease agreement was signed late on the 23rd but as my gestor failed to bring the fact that I needed to be registered BEFORE 1/1/21 to my attention it wasn't done till January.
Give it in Spanish the Google translate is not good for these things.
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Old Jan 29th 2021, 2:40 am
  #41  
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Default Re: Just had my residency turned down

Originally Posted by Chipmonk
Give it in Spanish the Google translate is not good for these things.
Ok, images attached

The 'padron' wasn't actually a padron, just a stamped copy of our application due to the backlog. I don't know if it not being the padron itself is the actual issue as my gestor didn't make it clear.




Last edited by Silk; Jan 29th 2021 at 2:50 am.
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Old Jan 29th 2021, 2:43 am
  #42  
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Default Re: Just had my residency turned down

Originally Posted by Silk
Resolution NO ADMITIR so basically turned down.

Rough auto translation: FOURTH.- Section f) of point 1 of the fourth additional provision of Organic Law 4/2000, of January 11, on rights and freedoms of foreigners in Spain and their social integration, provides that the competent authority to resolve will inadmit processing of applications in the case of applications that are manifestly unfounded, a circumstance that occurs in the present case as it is not proven that the applicant complies with the requirement established in the second section of the Joint instruction of the General Directorate of Migration and the General Directorate of the Police, which determines the procedure for the issuance of the residence document provided for in article 18.4 of withdrawal

And another autotranslation taken from the organic law 4/2000

https://www.global-regulation.com/tr...social-in.html
Finally incorporated into the law the documents proving the identity of foreigners must be included in the municipal census registration, adapting the rules governing EU citizens to the provisions of Royal Decree 178/2003, of February 14, on entry and residence in Spain of nationals of Member States of the European Union and other States party to the Agreement on the European Economic Area.

So basically they are saying only being registered on the Padron prior to 2021 proves I was living in Spain. So I could have applied on the 24th December if they were open as my lease agreement was signed late on the 23rd but as my gestor failed to bring the fact that I needed to be registered BEFORE 1/1/21 to my attention it wasn't done till January.

This is the complete residency document as issued in 2020.

https://www.inclusion.gob.es/fichero...it_2020_en.pdf

And this is the Q&A for the agreement.

Hopefully it may help.

This link gives all of the above and will take you to the Spanish language versions. Might be of some help.

https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/lang/en...residence.aspx


If it were me I would consider talking to another Gestor or find a Solicitor who deals with this. Ours cost €140 each which included going with us for both physical appointments. (still waiting for the first one)...

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Old Jan 29th 2021, 3:11 am
  #43  
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Default Re: Just had my residency turned down

Originally Posted by Barriej

If it were me I would consider talking to another Gestor or find a Solicitor who deals with this. Ours cost €140 each which included going with us for both physical appointments. (still waiting for the first one)...
Thank you for the links. I have an attorney looking into this for me. I've also contacted CAB Spain for their feedback.
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Old Jan 29th 2021, 3:14 am
  #44  
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Default Re: Just had my residency turned down

Originally Posted by Silk
Ok, images attached

The 'padron' wasn't actually a padron, just a stamped copy of our application due to the backlog. I don't know if it not being the padron itself is the actual issue as my gestor didn't make it clear.


Yes. It's the Segundo paragraph that basically says that the padron was 2021 and therefore not applicable. Given that they only mention that I would say it was a cursory flip through documents and as soon as they saw something dated 2021 they rejected it. If they dont expressly ask for padron see if you can make a new application without padron or any documents 2021 and you might find it gets a bit further into the system. If that fails then you will definitely need a LOCAL lawyer to help. That is you need someone who knows someone in the office. It might seem shady but that is how it kind of works and it basically means someone will actually take a more focussed assessment.
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Old Jan 29th 2021, 3:17 am
  #45  
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Default Re: Just had my residency turned down

Originally Posted by Silk
Thank you for the links. I have an attorney looking into this for me. I've also contacted CAB Spain for their feedback.
CAB is not an official UK set up despite its name. It's a private website which has no government affiliation and can do no more than anyone else.
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