Jimmy Savile

Old Jan 7th 2013, 8:13 am
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by bobd22 View Post
Dom just one point to give consent one needs to be of an age to give consent, of course there is a defence that you reasonably believed this to be the case. Many of these instances it would seem that the perpetrators clearly knew this not to be the case. It needs to be sorted out and closure one way or other, difficult to prove either way given time span. That would lead me to believe that before anyone is taking in re this matter there must be tangible evidence against them. Otherwise as has been said the public say they are guilty and they can't prove otherwise. As you say far better had been dealt with properly in the first place for all concerned.
Bob, I am not disagreeing, although the AOC is a line arbitrarily drawn by Parliament without taking into account any factors of life, experience or even mental capacity.
I would never condone under age sex, especially when it would appear to be unwanted and by men (or women) who are old enough to be parent or grand-parent.

Whilst many have expressed shock and horror at the Saville affair and the fallout that is still going on, many will by now have forgotten Ian Huntley who was convicted of the murders of two 10yo girls in Soham, although due to many things he did he was never convicted on a sexual charge. It emerged that various authorities were aware of allegations, from a number of sources, that he had committed one act of indecent assault, four acts of underage sex and three rapes.
More worryingly his job at the school had become vacant after the previous caretaker was dismissed for having an inappropriate relationship with a female pupil.

But although he has been given a 40 year tariff, 2 young girls lost their lives, others have had their lives ruined or marred, we had a great deal of handwringing by "the authorities" which has been repeated following Saville.

When are we going to stop the handwringing and get it right at the beginning not leaving it for 40-50 years and have to rely on time distorted memories and accusations.
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Old Jan 7th 2013, 10:31 am
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Hopefully to show another side to an arguement/discussion that has more moves than a Rubiks cube,

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-suicidal.html
John-Leslie-says-false-sex-claims-ruined-TV-career-left-suicidal


`
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Old Jan 7th 2013, 10:46 am
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Dom I agree with your comments however someone has to make a judgement on the age of consent, it is set as you say by government. My point was merely that some of these girls may have given their consent but were not old enough to do so by law and the perpetrators knew that. The rights and wrongs re now making a complaint after so long is what is the problem especially as no doubt for some it will be hoping for monetary gain.

Your final post is the other side of the coin that I alluded to. I hope that before these arrests which are very public there is tangible evidence to warrant that action. Finally it is out in the open fully now, it has been fudged in the past, the inquiry needs to proceed, deal with the outcome and move on with experience for the future re such matters.
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Old Jan 7th 2013, 10:55 am
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

I also agree that trying to say what one may or not do in such situations is pointless, as until it happens you just don't know. The saying 2 wrongs don't make a right springs to mind. However being a parent who knows what one would do? I myself in particular re JS wonder how many certainly in his earlier days in his home city of the fathers possibly did react in just such a way but were bought off? You have to wonder the fame thing just doesn't wash with me. I was brought up in a Pit village not far from Leeds in the 50's - 60's and know the type of people and how matters were dealt with. Just backing down because someone was a bit of a so called celeb would not enter in to it. I doubt thogh that we will ever know that as the parents mainly will be long gone now.
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Old Jan 7th 2013, 10:56 am
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by bobd22 View Post
Dom I agree with your comments however someone has to make a judgement on the age of consent, it is set as you say by government. My point was merely that some of these girls may have given their consent but were not old enough to do so by law and the perpetrators knew that. The rights and wrongs re now making a complaint after so long is what is the problem especially as no doubt for some it will be hoping for monetary gain.

Your final post is the other side of the coin that I alluded to. I hope that before these arrests which are very public there is tangible evidence to warrant that action. Finally it is out in the open fully now, it has been fudged in the past, the inquiry needs to proceed, deal with the outcome and move on with experience for the future re such matters.
yes Bob, that other side of the coin though is at present a double headed penny and will remain so whilst women remain their anonymity or it is given to men. (but some say it brings other women to complain who wouldn't have done so before and also protects women from that individual).

Whilst I would never want to trivialise the subject to have an individual lose their job, their living and their future over vindictive allegations the length of time taken with these inquiries starts to dilute the effect, and lessons should have been learnt after Soham but appear not to have been.

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Old Jan 7th 2013, 11:03 am
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by bobd22 View Post
I also agree that trying to say what one may or not do in such situations is pointless, as until it happens you just don't know. The saying 2 wrongs don't make a right springs to mind. However being a parent who knows what one would do? I myself in particular re JS wonder how many certainly in his earlier days in his home city of the fathers possibly did react in just such a way but were bought off? You have to wonder the fame thing just doesn't wash with me. I was brought up in a Pit village not far from Leeds in the 50's - 60's and know the type of people and how matters were dealt with. Just backing down because someone was a bit of a so called celeb would not enter in to it.
We are at 470 posts now, but seem to recall that this element came up much earlier.
The pit villages were not the place to deviate from the straight and narrow and anyone caught being just a little bit naughty would be dealt with. Perhaps a part of our lives some want to eradicate but perhaps should be allowed to resurface.
However, I can remember rumours in a general sense of JS always have girls on tap when in my teens, and living and working with people who frequented the clubs etc in that area. It was never specifically under age stuff, just it seemed to be general knowledge that "they were queueing up to go out the back".

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Old Jan 7th 2013, 11:10 am
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Yes it is a very difficult situation re getting genuine women to pursue and the ability of the odd vindictive person to try and get their revenge. I seem to think though there was a recent case where the woman was prosecuted for such action. Suppose the answer would be anonymity for all until there is a conviction but that would be very difficult
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Old Jan 7th 2013, 11:23 am
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by bobd22 View Post
Yes it is a very difficult situation re getting genuine women to pursue and the ability of the odd vindictive person to try and get their revenge. I seem to think though there was a recent case where the woman was prosecuted for such action. Suppose the answer would be anonymity for all until there is a conviction but that would be very difficult
in this "always on" media circus we now find ourselves in, it makes even our lives of 10 years ago seem sedentary, letalone the lives we had as kids.
you can't get irate with someone for upsetting you without some prat blasting you on some forum or another.
it seems that ridicule is the order of the day.

if anonymity is available for one then why not two ?
and how can it be more difficult for two when it seems to work for one.

and hows about a public apology by the one found to be lying when the case is thrown out - or is that pushing the boundaries too far for The Sisterhood.?

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Old Jan 7th 2013, 8:30 pm
  #474  
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

I do feel if you worked with children who had been abused you may look differently at this - it affects their whole life - as I said earlier - one of our ex students killed herself as she couldn't cope with the abuse any longer - I work with kids who have/are being abused and it's heartbreaking and after seeing these kids go through this I stand by my word that I would kill any bastard that laid one finger on any of my kids - so because it happened so long ago and it will be difficult to prove do we then just say - oh well it's happened but there's nowt we can do about it now - let's just forget it happened :-( xxxxx
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Old Jan 7th 2013, 8:41 pm
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by Sam Greenfield View Post
I do feel if you worked with children who had been abused you may look differently at this - it affects their whole life - as I said earlier - one of our ex students killed herself as she couldn't cope with the abuse any longer - I work with kids who have/are being abused and it's heartbreaking and after seeing these kids go through this I stand by my word that I would kill any bastard that laid one finger on any of my kids - so because it happened so long ago and it will be difficult to prove do we then just say - oh well it's happened but there's nowt we can do about it now - let's just forget it happened :-( xxxxx
Sam, you are talking about real time, whilst I am talking about things now erupting after decades of silence. considering how many people knew what was going on and did nothing, considering the so called "close families" where nothing was known - so there could be no retribution.
we know now that relying on the police and social services is a waste of time.
recent case (not related) where farmer shot at a burglar trying to run down his mother in a 4x4. the burglar got a fine the farmer was accused of attempted murder.

as to the girl who killed herself that is sad that anyone should become that desperate - but where were you, her friends, relatives, supporters in all this ?? what is being done about those committing the abuse ??

as to those who touch our kids, well we will always respond first and think later. that is how we are and it would IMHO be wrong to sit back and think and plan before acting.

go out there and kick everyone who gets in the way of you and your kids.
you will get a bad rep, the kids maybe also, but they will understand no one messes with the family.
thats good.


but don't leave it 30-40 years
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Old Jan 7th 2013, 8:53 pm
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by Domino View Post
Sam, you are talking about real time, whilst I am talking about things now erupting after decades of silence. considering how many people knew what was going on and did nothing, considering the so called "close families" where nothing was known - so there could be no retribution.
we know now that relying on the police and social services is a waste of time.
recent case (not related) where farmer shot at a burglar trying to run down his mother in a 4x4. the burglar got a fine the farmer was accused of attempted murder.

as to the girl who killed herself that is sad that anyone should become that desperate - but where were you, her friends, relatives, supporters in all this ?? what is being done about those committing the abuse ??

as to those who touch our kids, well we will always respond first and think later. that is how we are and it would IMHO be wrong to sit back and think and plan before acting.

go out there and kick everyone who gets in the way of you and your kids.
you will get a bad rep, the kids maybe also, but they will understand no one messes with the family.
thats good.


but don't leave it 30-40 years
We were there for her - we did go through social services - we were in court with her - do you know what they said eh - coz she has special needs she isn't/wasn't a credible/reliable witness - 4 years we worked with that girl 4 ******g years n got nowhere for her - n so she killed herself - you talk about real time - I bet it was real for their victims xxxxx
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