Jimmy Savile

Old Oct 25th 2012, 9:55 am
  #256  
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by Rambling Rose View Post
Personally I don't care a hoot about Savile or his 'legacy' in a few years time it would have been 'Jimmy who?' in any case.
What I do care about is knowing whether the BBC and other institutions covered up systematic abuse for decades.

There are all sorts of allegations being made now and they need to be properly investigated.

Maybe some good will come of this to prevent such things happening in the future.
Yes, agree
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 10:02 am
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by RichardP View Post
>>>>
This country is NOT a police state, the police act on information recieved, they then investigate the relativity pertaining to that information recieved, all the information is then passed over to the C.P.O. who then decide whether to prosecute or not.

Because the accused is dead everyone and anyone can say what they think regarding his guilt or innocence and have no fear of a libel law suit coming through the letterbox.

Until that guilt is substantiated in a court of law everything that is --- said / implied / thought ---- is hearsay and unproven. Nobody on this thread, including me, is defending the man, if the evidence is discussed in a court of law and is found to be based on TRUTH and NOT hearsay then and only then can this mans character be assasinated.
quite correct, they are just "lines of enquiry", something to investigate to see if there is enough evidence to pass on to the CPS to try to get a conviction in a court of law.
what happened between 2 people, irrespective of their ages, in a closed room with no onlookers, is eventually going to just become a "he said this, he did that" from one party because the other is not even alive any more.

I wonder how many of the old school friends are just gagging to tell the truth as told to them after "the event".

conjecture n. 1. Inference or judgment based on inconclusive or incomplete evidence; guesswork.
Hearsay n. Information gathered by one person from another person concerning some event, condition, or thing of which the first person had no direct experience. Such use of "hearsay evidence" in court is generally not allowed
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 10:07 am
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Thought you were leaving

In most cases of abuse (unless violence was used) it is always going to be hearsay. That's why many are reluctant to come forward. You forget that in some cases re. Savile there were witnesses.
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 10:08 am
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by Rambling Rose View Post
Personally I don't care a hoot about Savile or his 'legacy' in a few years time it would have been 'Jimmy who?' in any case.
What I do care about is knowing whether the BBC and other institutions covered up systematic abuse for decades.

There are all sorts of allegations being made now and they need to be properly investigated.

Maybe some good will come of this to prevent such things happening in the future.

I watched an interview with a representative from an abuse helpline yesterday. Their calls have increased from about 200 per week to over 2,000. He said people were feeling it was OK to come forward and talk about their experiences now when they hadn't done so before.
Theres going to be plenty of work for lawyers and counsellors.
It is worrying that these organisations have been able to keep a cap on such matters for so long presumably "for the good of the organisation".
What is even more worrying is the Police having been told about such incidents and ignored them. They have been caught on a number of matters from Saville to Asian Prostitution Rings to Paedophile Rings to Phone Tapping where they had ignored complaints for at best "fudged" their inquiries.

it begs the question Who Watches the Watchers?
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 10:11 am
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by Domino View Post
It is worrying that these organisations have been able to keep a cap on such matters for so long presumably "for the good of the organisation".
What is even more worrying is the Police having been told about such incidents and ignored them. They have been caught on a number of matters from Saville to Asian Prostitution Rings to Paedophile Rings to Phone Tapping where they had ignored complaints for at best "fudged" their inquiries.

it begs the question Who Watches the Watchers?
Hillsborough.
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 10:12 am
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

What annoys me the most is why everytime the Savile scandal is covered in the media why oh why do they have to show him in various poses and shell suits...WE KNOW WHO HE IS
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 10:12 am
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by RichardP View Post
>>>>
This country is NOT a police state, the police act on information recieved, they then investigate the relativity pertaining to that information recieved, all the information is then passed over to the C.P.O. who then decide whether to prosecute or not.

Because the accused is dead everyone and anyone can say what they think regarding his guilt or innocence and have no fear of a libel law suit coming through the letterbox.

Until that guilt is substantiated in a court of law everything that is --- said / implied / thought ---- is hearsay and unproven. Nobody on this thread, including me, is defending the man, if the evidence is discussed in a court of law and is found to be based on TRUTH and NOT hearsay then and only then can this mans character be assasinated.

Evidence presented directly from Victims is NOT hearsay.
It is solid evidence.

Evidence received directly from Witnesses is NOT hearsay.
It is solid evidence.

Evidence directly recorded from Saviles lips is NOT hearsay.
It is solid evidence,
as also is that presented in his own written words.

Continue desperately grasping at straws if you wish Richard, but the rest of the World is moving on and already beginning to address means by which disgusting,despicable affairs such as this can best be avoided in the future.
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 10:16 am
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by jackytoo View Post
Thought you were leaving

In most cases of abuse (unless violence was used) it is always going to be hearsay. That's why many are reluctant to come forward.
well there was a window left open

but even with violence it can only be hearsay - especially if someone has waited 40+ years before talking about it.

I have no problem with things being reported at the time, but we all know that the mind starts playing tricks about our memories and their accuracy over time. Late reporting may confirm something already known by others and someone can be brought to justice but even so when it comes down to a simple He Said, He Did situation without response or denial is not conducive to a healthy conviction.
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 10:22 am
  #264  
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Hearsay is when a person who has no direct knowledge of the events repeats the words of another. Dick is quite correct. Much of what we are reading is not hearsay it is evidence.
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 10:25 am
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly View Post
Evidence presented directly from Victims is NOT hearsay.
It is solid evidence.

Evidence received directly from Witnesses is NOT hearsay.
It is solid evidence.

Evidence directly recorded from Saviles lips is NOT hearsay.
It is solid evidence,
as also is that presented in his own written words.


Continue desperately grasping at straws if you wish Richard, but the rest of the World is moving on and already beginning to address means by which disgusting,despicable affairs such as this can best be avoided in the future.
Yes, understood - but did he name to place, date, time, name of person ??
What EVIDENCE has been provided by others - it would appear that only CLAIMS that have been made.
And from what I heard decades ago, which one was it of the sometimes 2 or 3 a night ?? But that is hearsay.
And I just don't see his "friends" dropping him into it with specifics unless they are going for mitigation of their own offences in the hope they will get a lighter sentence.

The World is wise enough now to know about such things and should already have mechanisms in place to avoid such despicable affairs. Which it has, but when The Watchers turn a blind eye the mechanisms are in shatters.
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 10:35 am
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by Rambling Rose View Post
Hillsborough.
Keep going - there are bound to be many more.

Leads me to wonder about the digitalising of police radio channels, stops people listening to their conversations and we have to assume they would not be worried about altering/cutting/losing those recordings.

I am positive in my belief that the majority of the police men and women are honest, law abiding citizens. We have had rotten apples before and believed we had got rid of them. It will take a long long while before the general public will be able to look at a police officer without that element of doubt.

Then we open it out to Social Services etc, who are supposed to also be guardians of our children, protecting them. Whilst running homes where "goings on" becomes endemic.

And as to organisations such as the BBC that seems to be full of the racist, sexually deviant, luvvies they keep trying to tell us about in our communities.
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 10:56 am
  #267  
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

To all those who are - lets say not defending him - but holding back on whether you feel he is guilty or not - do you honestly think if he was alive he would admit to any of these allegations - no he bloody well wouldnt - like so many other people who never do xxx
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 11:08 am
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly View Post
Evidence presented directly from Victims is NOT hearsay.
It is solid evidence.

Evidence received directly from Witnesses is NOT hearsay.
It is solid evidence.

Evidence directly recorded from Saviles lips is NOT hearsay.
It is solid evidence,
as also is that presented in his own written words.
All of the above are admissable evidence in a Court of Law.

You only need to consider the number of murderers who have been convicted a great many years after the event, to realise that the exact time and date as well as the means by which the offences were carried out are not a necessity for conviction.
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 11:08 am
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Nobody doubts he did it but what is unknown is who to and when and who else enabled him to do it. Savile appears to be the tip of a very very big iceberg.

The enablers/procurers/pimps and perverts who orchestrate situations which allow deviants to abuse others seems to be endemic in Britain.

Today we read........................
Schoolchildren as young as ten should learn about pornography as part of the national curriculum, a teaching union said yesterday.
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Old Oct 25th 2012, 12:58 pm
  #270  
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by whitelinen View Post
Nobody doubts he did it but what is unknown is who to and when and who else enabled him to do it. Savile appears to be the tip of a very very big iceberg.

The enablers/procurers/pimps and perverts who orchestrate situations which allow deviants to abuse others seems to be endemic in Britain.

Today we read........................
Schoolchildren as young as ten should learn about pornography as part of the national curriculum, a teaching union said yesterday.




Jeeesus bloody Christ - why - they grow up far too quickly these days as it is - why on earth should they need to know about such things before they are old enough or certainly mature enough to understand these things - omfg xxxxx
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