Jimmy Savile

Old Oct 19th 2012, 8:15 am
  #151  
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy View Post
And ..... if he is guilty .... then think of the number of people who seemingly took the same attitude as you apparently and allowed him to get away with it for so many years.

I'm assuming of course that you are thinking that all the nurses, patients etc who have come forward are not to be taken as proof when it comes down to it, and are lying??
I find your remarks offensive, but that will always stem from ignorance.

How many times does this have to thrust before your eyes

A PERSON IS INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY IN A COURT OF LAW. All this gutterpress/ witchhunt is based on HEARSAY.

Only when --and IF it is proven in a court of law can you bray your disgust at the moon, but when /IF it is proven so I daresay you'll have moved on to yet another sensationalist story.
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Old Oct 19th 2012, 8:49 am
  #152  
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by RichardP View Post
I find your remarks offensive, but that will always stem from ignorance.

How many times does this have to thrust before your eyes

A PERSON IS INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY IN A COURT OF LAW. All this gutterpress/ witchhunt is based on HEARSAY.

Only when --and IF it is proven in a court of law can you bray your disgust at the moon, but when /IF it is proven so I daresay you'll have moved on to yet another sensationalist story.
How do we prove it in court if A the guy is dead and B there is no way there can be any evidence? In light of that shall we just pretend it never happened? I mean who cares right?
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Old Oct 19th 2012, 8:58 am
  #153  
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Surely the point is that there are accusations of predatory paedophila being carried out in institutions such as hospitals, children's homes and the BBC.

These need to be investigated to be sure that something similar is not happening now and can never happen again. Its a job for the police not the media or yet another public enquiry.
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Old Oct 19th 2012, 9:37 am
  #154  
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by RichardP View Post
I find your remarks offensive, but that will always stem from ignorance.

How many times does this have to thrust before your eyes

A PERSON IS INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY IN A COURT OF LAW. All this gutterpress/ witchhunt is based on HEARSAY.

Only when --and IF it is proven in a court of law can you bray your disgust at the moon, but when /IF it is proven so I daresay you'll have moved on to yet another sensationalist story.
Offensive? Cant see why because I'm only highlighting your thoughts on the subject

Dont shout at me. I'm perfectly aware of "innocent until proven guilty", but unless someone digs him up and stands him in a court of law thats never going to happen is it, so it's just a discussion.

Oh .... and by the way ... I'm not braying disgust at anyone, I'm just stating an opinion. Which I'm quite entitled to do.
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Old Oct 19th 2012, 9:44 am
  #155  
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by RichardP View Post
I find your remarks offensive, but that will always stem from ignorance.

How many times does this have to thrust before your eyes

A PERSON IS INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY IN A COURT OF LAW. All this gutterpress/ witchhunt is based on HEARSAY.

Only when --and IF it is proven in a court of law can you bray your disgust at the moon, but when /IF it is proven so I daresay you'll have moved on to yet another sensationalist story.
And how many times does it have to be pointed out to you that that is JUST NOT TRUE.

There are loads of criminals throughout history who are very obviously guilty of crimes who, in your view, are innocent simply because they have not been tried in a court of law. You've already been given some but, if you really need some more (you shouldn't - it's very easy) then just ask and I (and probably others) will give you a list.

To make things clearer here is a dictionary definition:

guilt·y (glt)
adj. guilt·i·er, guilt·i·est
1.
a. Responsible for a reprehensible act; culpable.
b. Law Found to have violated a criminal law by a jury or judge
You will note that there are two separate definitions the first of which has nothing whatever to do with being tried in a court of law.
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Old Oct 19th 2012, 11:32 am
  #156  
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by jojojojojo View Post
The definition of "child" in this particular case is the hard one - teenage girls are difficult to categorise!!!

Jo xxx
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this point Jo - I've worked/work with young children, teenagers who have been sexually abused - until you see the fall out it causes you will never understand how they are affected - girls and boys who think if they keep themselves dirty so that mum, dad, uncle, aunts etc will leave them alone if they smell bad - teenagers who sell themselves on street corners coz that's all they've ever known or how they think its the way to get affection - a girl who pulls a knife on a member of staff coz she is about to leave school and its the only place she ever feels safe only to hear 18 months later that she is dead coz she can't cope anymore and feels her only option is to kill herself - children who suddenly disappear when you set the wheels in motion after a disclosure - young girls who are married off at 14 just being used to get family members over here and end up being more than sexually abused - girls who end up pregnant off dad, stepdad, brother, uncle etc - do I need to go on

Walk a day in one of their shoes and see if you disagree then

Sorry rant over but this just disgusts and angers me beyond belief as to see someone go through this is heartbreaking

Plus one of my oldest and dearest friends was sexually abused as a teenager and it has affected her all her life - she can't cope in relationships - she has problems dealing with what has happened - so it can affect some people for life - people who do these terrible things should be exposed for the scumbags they are

Rant really over now xxxxx

Last edited by Sam Greenfield; Oct 19th 2012 at 11:34 am.
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Old Oct 19th 2012, 12:03 pm
  #157  
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
And how many times does it have to be pointed out to you that that is JUST NOT TRUE.

There are loads of criminals throughout history who are very obviously guilty of crimes who, in your view, are innocent simply because they have not been tried in a court of law. You've already been given some but, if you really need some more (you shouldn't - it's very easy) then just ask and I (and probably others) will give you a list.

To make things clearer here is a dictionary definition:



You will note that there are two separate definitions the first of which has nothing whatever to do with being tried in a court of law.

PRECISELY !
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Old Oct 19th 2012, 2:13 pm
  #158  
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by Sam Greenfield View Post
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this point Jo - I've worked/work with young children, teenagers who have been sexually abused - until you see the fall out it causes you will never understand how they are affected - girls and boys who think if they keep themselves dirty so that mum, dad, uncle, aunts etc will leave them alone if they smell bad - teenagers who sell themselves on street corners coz that's all they've ever known or how they think its the way to get affection - a girl who pulls a knife on a member of staff coz she is about to leave school and its the only place she ever feels safe only to hear 18 months later that she is dead coz she can't cope anymore and feels her only option is to kill herself - children who suddenly disappear when you set the wheels in motion after a disclosure - young girls who are married off at 14 just being used to get family members over here and end up being more than sexually abused - girls who end up pregnant off dad, stepdad, brother, uncle etc - do I need to go on

Walk a day in one of their shoes and see if you disagree then

Sorry rant over but this just disgusts and angers me beyond belief as to see someone go through this is heartbreaking

Plus one of my oldest and dearest friends was sexually abused as a teenager and it has affected her all her life - she can't cope in relationships - she has problems dealing with what has happened - so it can affect some people for life - people who do these terrible things should be exposed for the scumbags they are

Rant really over now xxxxx

I agree for some, but not all!!! I posted a few posts back of my experiences as a child I didnt mention my piano teacher (the police were involved in that one and he was sent down). I must be a tough cookie, cos it most certainly hasnt affected my life - my cousins and I still laugh about uncle Ted and as for the piano teacher ??? Dunno, dont care and rarely even think about it - apart from my piano playing never improved.

as for teenagers dolled up and going off to gigs with the sole intention of trying to "pull" a celebrity, well I didnt, but I knew many who did and bragged about it at school. One girl claimed she was pregnant, another brought a pair of a celebrities underpants to school (apparently)............ No I didnt live n a rough area, in fact I'd say most, if not all of the girls were fully aware of their actions. I know that doesnt apply to all and I've never said that Savile is innocent or that all these girls "asked for it", but I suspect a number without doubt IMO did!

I'd say that Savile was an arrogant opportunist who put himself in the right environment to carry out his fantasies rather than a seedy perv who grabbed and molested young children.


Jo xxx

Last edited by jojojojojo; Oct 19th 2012 at 2:31 pm.
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Old Oct 19th 2012, 2:52 pm
  #159  
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

I think the point RichardP is trying to make, is that allegations alone should never be enough to say someone is guilty. If that was the case, then anyone of us be accused of any crime.

In my home town in Scotland, a local shopkeeper was accused of abusing three young girls.Police investigated the matter and after months it was revealed that a friend these girls had been caught shoplifting and getting her pals to concoct this story, was her way of getting back at the shopkeeper. He was cleared of any wrongdoing,but by then the damage was done. His business collapsed, his house and car had been vandalised. He eventually had to sell everything and move away.

Then also there was the Orkney child abuse scandal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_R..._abuse_scandal


where an over zealous, manipulative social worker ruined lives.

Today, we would all like safeguard that law protects us and media hype and rumour are not what decides if we are guilty or not.
You also have to consider that behind the allegations, there may be some person who see's a chance to cash in, some "journalist" that wants a story, etc. (the days of responsible jounalism left the planet years ago. A mate of mine lived close to one of these "journalists" and his favourite term for him was "manure spreader")

But the blood is in the water now and the pirihanas are closing in. By the time they are done, we may never know the truth. If Savile was guilty, may he rot in deepest shit pit of Hell. However, if the allegations are false, then those responsible for making them, along with media should face the full force of the law.

Last edited by dunmovin; Oct 19th 2012 at 3:05 pm.
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Old Oct 19th 2012, 3:22 pm
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Scraping the bottom of the barrel now in order to defend the indefensible....and why is everyone shouting
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Old Oct 19th 2012, 3:34 pm
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by jackytoo View Post
Scraping the bottom of the barrel now in order to defend the indefensible....and why is everyone shouting
I'm not defending Savile. What I am defending is the rights of every person, not to be tried and convicted by media and rumour...there is a huge difference. The alleged offences are indefensiible, if true, if not, the perpretators of the falsehood should be brought to justice,to deter others from picking on some other rich person/celeb/star.

But how would you feel, after all your years in Spain and then going back to the UK, one morning you pick up the paper and find you have been accused of such crimes during your time in Spain?

I'll bet the first thing you would say "Ridiculous...where's the proof? You can't go around saying things like that without proof."

That is why civilized places have the rule of law that says "innocent until proven guilty"

Last edited by dunmovin; Oct 19th 2012 at 4:02 pm.
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Old Oct 19th 2012, 3:40 pm
  #162  
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by jojojojojo View Post

I'd say that Savile was an arrogant opportunist who put himself in the right environment to carry out his fantasies rather than a seedy perv who grabbed and molested young children.


Jo xxx
You do know that he is being investigated over molesting 10 year old kids don't you? I only ask because you are starting to sound a little like you are defending someone who is being accused of molesting VERY young children!
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Old Oct 19th 2012, 4:49 pm
  #163  
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by rugbymatt View Post
You do know that he is being investigated over molesting 10 year old kids don't you? I only ask because you are starting to sound a little like you are defending someone who is being accused of molesting VERY young children!
Where are you people coming from --- are you judge and jury ???---- nobody is defending any wrongdoer, all some of us are saying --- where is the proof ??? not bloody hearsay --- or someone i know told me ---- or there's no smoke without fire ------- prove ---whether the person is dead or not ---PROVE IT ---- and then we can all agree what a fiend that person was----[ until then its only HEARSAY ---Newspapers trying to sell their garbage wares --- or those that now think they might just make a few quid --- finally there are those that may /could have been abused , but until it is a proven fact it is only HEARSAY whether the guilty be dead or not.
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Old Oct 19th 2012, 5:01 pm
  #164  
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by RichardP View Post
Where are you people coming from --- are you judge and jury ???---- nobody is defending any wrongdoer, all some of us are saying --- where is the proof ??? not bloody hearsay --- or someone i know told me ---- or there's no smoke without fire ------- prove ---whether the person is dead or not ---PROVE IT ---- and then we can all agree what a fiend that person was----[ until then its only HEARSAY ---Newspapers trying to sell their garbage wares --- or those that now think they might just make a few quid --- finally there are those that may /could have been abused , but until it is a proven fact it is only HEARSAY whether the guilty be dead or not.
You People????

This isn't a court of law you know. Its an ex pat forum where people can express their individual views. Just because other peoples views don't coincide with yours, it doesnt mean that they are "ignorant"
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Old Oct 19th 2012, 5:10 pm
  #165  
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Default Re: Jimmy Savile

Originally Posted by jojojojojo View Post
I'd say that Savile was an arrogant opportunist who put himself in the right environment to carry out his fantasies rather than a seedy perv who grabbed and molested young children.


Jo xxx
I'd say, from what is being reported, that he was probably both.
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