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INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Old May 6th 2010, 7:12 pm
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Default Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by CAROL TAFF
The English translation of the minutes of the February EUC meeting stated that the 2009 accounts were exhibited at the Town Hall for eight days prior to the meeting (similarly I suspect was the 2010 budget). However, that's a fat lot of use if nobody was made aware of this prior to the meeting. Were they presented in both Spanish and English? Also, the minutes of the meeting should have contained a far more detailed summary of the 2009 accounts, and 2010 budget (should these not have been included as attachments?).

I certainly share Jon's concern as to the manner in which the EUC accounts are being organised. It would seem that there was a debt of 550,000€ in 2009. Where does the money come from to pay for that? I believe that the planned expenditure for 2010 is 900,000€ approx. So far the 2010 income is 490,000€. What happens if the shorfashortfallt made up (as I believe it won't be)? I sincerely hope that the EUC is not accumulating debts that we have to pay considerable extra in the future.

Is the administration company taking action against non-payers? Doesn't Spanish law call for lists of non-payers be made public to EUC members? I am prepared to accept that Fadesa have paid their dues, but they are not the only developers. Have Albatross Golf, Sun and Sea, and the numerous other developers with completed properties including villas, paid their dues? What about Tasa, who I understand went bankrupt. Do the accumulated EUC subs of their uncompleted properties remain with them, to be payed by the developers who surely will eventually take these over?

I feel that we need some answers to the questions posed above. It will then be possible for us to take the action necessary to ensure that the EUC progresses under our control rather than as a runaway engine.

Taff
In the convocatoria that they sent it was indicated that the accounts was in the LGC´s office in Ayamonte. I know people who went 5 times in the scheduled time and was always closed. LGC has two offices. The principal, in Isla Cristina, one in Ayamonte (home of the Mayor). In fact, they work in Isla Cristina.

If someone wants a copy of the accounts, I can send it by e-mail

About TASA, the issue is very curious. The EUC is within the bankruptcy process TASA why they did not pay in December 2009. However, FADESA had more time to pay. In my opinion, if both were in bankruptcy in December 200, and both had not paid, any decision had to be taken to both.
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Old May 6th 2010, 7:17 pm
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Default Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by John & Kath
I think Tasa is different they were not part of the original planning approval and are not shown on the development plan issued by Fadesa. If they are part of the EUC I would think we have lost their cash since they have properly gone bust not trading out of administration as is Fadesa.
I think that CAROL TAFF wants to say that TASA (and other developers) should pay the fee of the EUC.
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Old May 6th 2010, 7:29 pm
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Smile Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer
I think that CAROL TAFF wants to say that TASA (and other developers) should pay the fee of the EUC.
I agree and we should pursue all non-paying developers even the small ones which is hard since they are probably local and in hard times not of their own making but the big boys should have been more circumspect.
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Old May 7th 2010, 1:29 pm
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Default Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by John & Kath
I agree and we should pursue all non-paying developers even the small ones which is hard since they are probably local and in hard times not of their own making but the big boys should have been more circumspect.
I also agree. In my opinion there are only two valid ways: to pay or sue. In this case, the judge will decide.
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Old May 7th 2010, 2:05 pm
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Default Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by John & Kath
I agree and we should pursue all non-paying developers even the small ones which is hard since they are probably local and in hard times not of their own making but the big boys should have been more circumspect.
Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer
I also agree. In my opinion there are only two valid ways: to pay or sue. In this case, the judge will decide.
You may struggle though, it is widespread. HERE
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Old May 7th 2010, 6:24 pm
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Default Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by jdr
You may struggle though, it is widespread. HERE
Sorry, I meant to fight in court against the irregularities of the EUC.
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Old May 7th 2010, 6:58 pm
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Default Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer
Sorry, I meant to fight in court against the irregularities of the EUC.
I understand, I just added the link to show it is happening everywhere to the builders and communities.
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Old May 8th 2010, 9:52 am
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Default Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

If anybody is not aware of the situation with the EUC and OUR MONEY please read the summaries below (in blue/bold/italics): It takes just a couple of minutes At the end I ask everybody who has not joined the Owners Group - please do so asap - and be aware that there is a residents association that we can consider too. All details are below: Here are the main points all in one post: I suggest you read my summaries in blue/bold/italics and if you want more details - consult the posts attached:


Originally Posted by CAROL TAFF
The English translation of the minutes of the February EUC meeting stated that the 2009 accounts were exhibited at the Town Hall for eight days prior to the meeting (similarly I suspect was the 2010 budget). However, that's a fat lot of use if nobody was made aware of this prior to the meeting. Were they presented in both Spanish and English? Also, the minutes of the meeting should have contained a far more detailed summary of the 2009 accounts, and 2010 budget (should these not have been included as attachments?).

I certainly share Jon's concern as to the manner in which the EUC accounts are being organised. It would seem that there was a debt of 550,000€ in 2009. Where does the money come from to pay for that? I believe that the planned expenditure for 2010 is 900,000€ approx. So far the 2010 income is 490,000€. What happens if the shorfashortfallt made up (as I believe it won't be)? I sincerely hope that the EUC is not accumulating debts that we have to pay considerable extra in the future.

Is the administration company taking action against non-payers? Doesn't Spanish law call for lists of non-payers be made public to EUC members? I am prepared to accept that Fadesa have paid their dues, but they are not the only developers. Have Albatross Golf, Sun and Sea, and the numerous other developers with completed properties including villas, paid their dues? What about Tasa, who I understand went bankrupt. Do the accumulated EUC subs of their uncompleted properties remain with them, to be payed by the developers who surely will eventually take these over?

I feel that we need some answers to the questions posed above. It will then be possible for us to take the action necessary to ensure that the EUC progresses under our control rather than as a runaway engine.

Taff
My thoughts exactly thanks Taff: As per my post below:

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl
Its all very suspect that we havent received minutes for AGES and when we do the 'meat' i.e the accounts are not there.

The EUC are doing themselves no favours when they continue to miscommunicate like this and then hide important information. Im surprised the treasurer hasnt sent out the accounts: Also at the AGM these were not properly presented and the agenda left a lot to be desired. For example we are liable for 2009 debts PLUS we need to budget for 2010.

The accounts and money in general, (eg accounts, BG etc) have been my key concerns.

I contacted L+G in March for some information. Here is the Q+A...My questions in Blue - their answers in red. BTW I have no issues with L+G as they have been responsive.

Regards
Jon

Please can you tell me if MF have paid ALL their bills. First question. Martinsa Fadesa has paid ALL their EUC bills.

2009
What was our total debt in 2009, please, for all the services we used, your bills etc. (This is a debt we are required to pay) Total 2009 debt 550.000 € aprox.

I believe this is ALL a debt - as no money was received in 2009. Please can you confirm. Yes, all debt. I confirm

2010
1. How much money have we ACTUALLY received in total from the residents please? Total money 490.000 € aprox.

2. If every resident has paid, what is the THEORETICAL amount we should received please? About 950.000 €, but you have to subtract 3.5 percent tax charged by management the collection of bills.

3. If I subtract the answer to number 1 from the answer to number 2 - the result will be the unpaid bills - and you will take legal action and a 20% surcharge. Am I correct please? I don´t understand this question very well, but the recharge to payment out of voluntary period is 5% now. Then will be 20% with the legal action.

4. Will you present the answers to my questions for both 2009 and 2010 in the official minutes please? I think is possible.

So to summarise my posts to now: Seems we have 550k in debts from 09 - we need 950K to pay 2010 = 1.5m in total (nice round numbers eh!!) and we have only so far received 490K... with another bill coming soon.

Conclusion: The numbers have never added up and it appears that they want to hide the information from us. Also hidden from view is an increasing debt situation (they arent Greek are they?? )

Also the awfully-badly presented so-called 'accounts' for 2010 - which were sent out before the EUC meeting (and made no mention of 09 debts) - had a total of 950K - very convenient - as this is the sum of all EUC fees - if EVERYBODY pays EVERY BILL. Where's the business sense in that? Assuming that these people arent fools, and seeing that there is a lot of hidden stuff regarding the accounts... what conclusion can we draw?

Thanks Carol for this next post, just below: CLEARLY they are not following the correct procedures written down in the statute/constitution - I wonder why? Am I right to have suspicions?


Originally Posted by Carol&John
According to the EUC of CE statutes, and via Google translation (with my overtyping in red for some clarity):

"Title IV. Economic regime. Chapter 1. Fiscal year, budget and accounts.
Article 40. Annual Accounts.
Quarterly, the administrator (LGC) will make a balance sheet and statement of income and expenditure which will be linked to the cumulative budget to date, all of which will be operated by the Board of Regents (el Consejo Rector = the Board). At the end of each fiscal year, these statements may be subject to interference from censors (ie. an Audit of Accounts?), if they (Accountant?) had been appointed by the General Assembly (la Asamblea General = all of us) with this character (for this purpose). These statements will be made available for examination by each member of the Institution (EUC) in the five days preceding the celebration of the Assembly General Meeting (la Asamblea General Ordinaria = AGM)."

I understand it as such (and am open to correction):
1. The Administrator is the custodian of the documentation of the EUC.
2. The documentation is available to view 5 days prior to an AGM from the Administrator. How many people were able to read the accounts (not to confuse these with the Presupuesto or Budget) prior to the February 2010 AGM? How many people at the AGM were aware at the time when this motion to approve the accounts was raised? (A small group according to the minutes of the meeting.)
3. The audit of accounts needs to be requested to the Board by the members of the EUC at the AGM. IMO, it should be included in the Agenda (Orden del Día). The President sets the Agenda, and follows the points listed on this agenda UNLESS a member at the AGM claims that another point of equal value needs to be put to the vote.

Hmmm and then we read this next post below - people exercising their right to see the accounts and the office is conveniently closed when they turn up.....


Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer
In the convocatoria that they sent it was indicated that the accounts was in the LGC´s office in Ayamonte. I know people who went 5 times in the scheduled time and was always closed. LGC has two offices. The principal, in Isla Cristina, one in Ayamonte (home of the Mayor). In fact, they work in Isla Cristina.

If someone wants a copy of the accounts, I can send it by e-mail......
Hi SL I hope these are proper accounts that take into account 09 debts and 10 requirements and also amounts received and owed.

I cant shake the feeling that I have had for some time now, that we are being taken for a ride.... no proof - but the circumstantial stuff increases daily.

Nice to know the board have budgeted Travel and lunches!!

Please can you send me the accounts? You have my email

Thanks + I am so pleased that we have the associations 1) Owners Group and 2) Residents Association.

I strongly suggest that everyone joins the Owners group ASAP they are already petitioning the mayor and have met him (see below) .. and your joining the group adds names to the petition: also there is no competition between the groups so you can also join the RA once they are up and running. Later if there is a decision to make between the 2 you can make it. RIGHT NOW THERES NO NEED TO - so please join the Owners Group asap (as below) and get ready for the Residents Assosc.

Jon


http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...33#post8542233

Originally Posted by A.B.C
Once again, thanks to all who have shown interest in the continued success of the Owners Group.
Members registration is growing daily demonstrating that the Owners Group is not simply a “random group of owners”
as recently commented on by John.
From the beginning, the Owners Group clearly stipulated the objective is to create a strong voice for property owners.
With the Owners Group steady growth, that objective is being achieved.

Regarding the petition we recently presented to the Mayor of Ayamonte, thanks to Jon-Bxl for your comments and support for our approach.
And in particular in your reply to John with regard to the effectiveness of a multi pronged approach to what inevitably affects anyone who owns a property on Costa Esuri.

For John, to clarify any confusion of an individual’s or group’s right to petition, here is a small note I sent to the members of the Costa Esuri Owners Group on that point.
“The right to petition in Spain is a medieval right and is written into the Constitution of Spain 1978, article 29. The law that applies is the Ley Organico 4/2001, de 12 de Noviembre, Reguladora del Derecho de Petición.

The petition I presented to the mayor does not include all the formalities, but I want to adopt a friendly approach to give the mayor a chance to respond where he feels he is not obliged, it’s better to work with than against. However should the informal and friendly approach fail to motivate the mayor, then the more formal and official route will be needed, which would be a little harder to coordinate but not impossible.”


As mentioned, we aim to update the petition at intervals, to resubmit it with newly registered members represented.
So, if you have not yet registered and would like to be represented; send your details through a PM here on the forum;
or by email directly to : c o s t a e s u r i @ y m a i l . c o m
or via our web site, details in the signature below.


Thanks to all for your comments
Arthur
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Old May 8th 2010, 11:00 am
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Smile Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

To keep up the momentum the next meeting of the RA committee is set for Friday 14th May at 6 for 6.30 pm. Remember that all meetings are open to everyone and all are most welcome please come along and tell everyone who may not see this to join us as well.
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Old May 9th 2010, 3:45 pm
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Default Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl
If anybody is not aware of the situation with the EUC and OUR MONEY please read the summaries below (in blue/bold/italics): It takes just a couple of minutes At the end I ask everybody who has not joined the Owners Group - please do so asap - and be aware that there is a residents association that we can consider too. All details are below: Here are the main points all in one post: I suggest you read my summaries in blue/bold/italics and if you want more details - consult the posts attached:




My thoughts exactly thanks Taff: As per my post below:




So to summarise my posts to now: Seems we have 550k in debts from 09 - we need 950K to pay 2010 = 1.5m in total (nice round numbers eh!!) and we have only so far received 490K... with another bill coming soon.

Conclusion: The numbers have never added up and it appears that they want to hide the information from us. Also hidden from view is an increasing debt situation (they arent Greek are they?? )

Also the awfully-badly presented so-called 'accounts' for 2010 - which were sent out before the EUC meeting (and made no mention of 09 debts) - had a total of 950K - very convenient - as this is the sum of all EUC fees - if EVERYBODY pays EVERY BILL. Where's the business sense in that? Assuming that these people arent fools, and seeing that there is a lot of hidden stuff regarding the accounts... what conclusion can we draw?

Thanks Carol for this next post, just below: CLEARLY they are not following the correct procedures written down in the statute/constitution - I wonder why? Am I right to have suspicions?





Hmmm and then we read this next post below - people exercising their right to see the accounts and the office is conveniently closed when they turn up.....




Hi SL I hope these are proper accounts that take into account 09 debts and 10 requirements and also amounts received and owed.

I cant shake the feeling that I have had for some time now, that we are being taken for a ride.... no proof - but the circumstantial stuff increases daily.

Nice to know the board have budgeted Travel and lunches!!

Please can you send me the accounts? You have my email

Thanks + I am so pleased that we have the associations 1) Owners Group and 2) Residents Association.

I strongly suggest that everyone joins the Owners group ASAP they are already petitioning the mayor and have met him (see below) .. and your joining the group adds names to the petition: also there is no competition between the groups so you can also join the RA once they are up and running. Later if there is a decision to make between the 2 you can make it. RIGHT NOW THERES NO NEED TO - so please join the Owners Group asap (as below) and get ready for the Residents Assosc.

Jon


http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...33#post8542233
Are there websites for the Owners Group and the Residents Association?
If so details please, much appreciated.
thanks.
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Old May 9th 2010, 4:03 pm
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Smile Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by mickkkt
Are there websites for the Owners Group and the Residents Association?
If so details please, much appreciated.
thanks.
There is a website up and running for the OG and it has been posted on this thread and the owners group thread so do a seach or scan back and read the other posts. The RA website is under construction as we speak and there may be announcements after next Friday. Come along to the meeting if you are in town!
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Old May 9th 2010, 7:17 pm
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Default Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by John & Kath
There is a website up and running for the OG and it has been posted on this thread and the owners group thread so do a seach or scan back and read the other posts. The RA website is under construction as we speak and there may be announcements after next Friday. Come along to the meeting if you are in town!
Thank you.
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Old May 10th 2010, 8:43 am
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Default Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by mickkkt
Are there websites for the Owners Group and the Residents Association?
If so details please, much appreciated.
thanks.
Here is the website for the Owners Group

http://www.costaesurigroup.info/

All it takes is a simple quick email to the owners group and you are in.. and you are added to the petition to the mayor - whose first objective is to get us millions of euros of money.... rather than see it disappear So a quick email is not to much to do for anyone concerned with their property investment in Costa Esuri. Whatever the background and political issues, we at least have to try - if we dont try and let it slip - we lose it for sure...

Also people need to know that we are serious and are not 'rich second home owners who don't have a clue and ripe to be fleeced'

I do want to stress that though I am a member - I am not involved in the management of the owners group - and in no way am I 'touting for business' I just think we have an opportunity finally to have a say and try to put a controls to what is a very suspect EUC organisation. They take our money - and don't clearly tell us what they are doing with it!! See my earlier post just above.... with all the details in one post/ Post 83 above or click here

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showp...8&postcount=83

The Owners group is already up and running and has already met with the mayor. As I say above it takes a quick email to them to be registered. For details just check out their site.

The Residents Association are in the process of building a website and their organisation - and will also be an organisation to make our views heard.

Thanks
Jon
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Old May 10th 2010, 9:34 am
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Default Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl
Here is the website for the Owners Group

http://www.costaesurigroup.info/

All it takes is a simple quick email to the owners group and you are in.. and you are added to the petition to the mayor - whose first objective is to get us millions of euros of money.... rather than see it disappear So a quick email is not to much to do for anyone concerned with their property investment in Costa Esuri. Whatever the background and political issues, we at least have to try - if we dont try and let it slip - we lose it for sure...

Also people need to know that we are serious and are not 'rich second home owners who don't have a clue and ripe to be fleeced'

I do want to stress that though I am a member - I am not involved in the management of the owners group - and in no way am I 'touting for business' I just think we have an opportunity finally to have a say and try to put a controls to what is a very suspect EUC organisation. They take our money - and don't clearly tell us what they are doing with it!! See my earlier post just above.... with all the details in one post/ Post 83 above or click here

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showp...8&postcount=83

The Owners group is already up and running and has already met with the mayor. As I say above it takes a quick email to them to be registered. For details just check out their site.

The Residents Association are in the process of building a website and their organisation - and will also be an organisation to make our views heard.

Thanks
Jon
Thank you.
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Old May 17th 2010, 10:19 am
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Default Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by John & Kath
To keep up the momentum the next meeting of the RA committee is set for Friday 14th May at 6 for 6.30 pm. Remember that all meetings are open to everyone and all are most welcome please come along and tell everyone who may not see this to join us as well.
What about the meeting?
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