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INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Old Apr 19th 2010, 8:56 pm
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Default Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

"The President says that the transportation is a priority for the Town Hall and trust that this service is working before the summer".

MINUTES OF THE ORDINARY, GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE COSTA ESURI EUC HELD ON FEBRUARY 5, 2010.
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Old Apr 19th 2010, 9:06 pm
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Smile Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer
"The President says that the transportation is a priority for the Town Hall and trust that this service is working before the summer".

MINUTES OF THE ORDINARY, GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE COSTA ESURI EUC HELD ON FEBRUARY 5, 2010.
The last time the Mayor spoke about this he seemed to say that a bus service would have to wait until he had set up a Municipal Bus Service.

This seems odd to me why not just arrange a service with Damas or one of the other private companies.

Damas already run the school service and I understand that adults may use the spare capacity.
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Old Apr 19th 2010, 9:37 pm
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Default Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by John & Kath
The last time the Mayor spoke about this he seemed to say that a bus service would have to wait until he had set up a Municipal Bus Service.

This seems odd to me why not just arrange a service with Damas or one of the other private companies.

Damas already run the school service and I understand that adults may use the spare capacity.
I understood that there are no people to hire buses. I do not believe that someone knows how many people are in CE. There are many people who are not registered.

I also believe that the bus service could be provided by a private company (Damas or other). The Town Hall only has to tender the service.

However, I must have misunderstood. He has signed that there are buses before summer. Summer begins June 21.
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Old Apr 20th 2010, 9:39 am
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Smile Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer
I understood that there are no people to hire buses. I do not believe that someone knows how many people are in CE. There are many people who are not registered.

I also believe that the bus service could be provided by a private company (Damas or other). The Town Hall only has to tender the service.

However, I must have misunderstood. He has signed that there are buses before summer. Summer begins June 21.
Its chicken and egg if there are no buses most will find a way either by car, with lifts, by taxi, bicycle or walk but if an extension of the Damas service to the Poligono to or three times a day was made it would be a start.
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Old Apr 20th 2010, 10:26 am
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Default Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by John & Kath
Its chicken and egg if there are no buses most will find a way either by car, with lifts, by taxi, bicycle or walk but if an extension of the Damas service to the Poligono to or three times a day was made it would be a start.
Its all very suspect that we havent received minutes fpr AGES and when we do the 'meat' i.e the accounts are not there.

The EUC are doing themselves no favours when they continue to miscommunicate like this and then hide important information. Im surprised the treasurer hasnt sent out the accounts: Also at the AGM these were not properly presented and the agenda left a lot to be desired. For example we are liable for 2009 debts PLUS we need to budget for 2010.

The accounts and money in general, (eg accounts, BG etc) have been my key concerns.

I contacted L+G in March for some information. Here is the Q+A...My questions in Blue - their answers in red. BTW I have no issues with L+G as they have been responsive.

Regards
Jon

Please can you tell me if MF have paid ALL their bills. First question. Martinsa Fadesa has paid ALL their EUC bills.

2009
What was our total debt in 2009, please, for all the services we used, your bills etc. (This is a debt we are required to pay) Total 2009 debt 550.000 € aprox.

I believe this is ALL a debt - as no money was received in 2009. Please can you confirm. Yes, all debt. I confirm

2010
1. How much money have we ACTUALLY received in total from the residents please? Total money 490.000 € aprox.

2. If every resident has paid, what is the THEORETICAL amount we should received please? About 950.000 €, but you have to subtract 3.5 percent tax charged by management the collection of bills.

3. If I subtract the answer to number 1 from the answer to number 2 - the result will be the unpaid bills - and you will take legal action and a 20% surcharge. Am I correct please? I don´t understand this question very well, but the recharge to payment out of voluntary period is 5% now. Then will be 20% with the legal action.

4. Will you present the answers to my questions for both 2009 and 2010 in the official minutes please? I think is possible.

Last edited by Jon-Bxl; Apr 20th 2010 at 10:32 am.
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Old Apr 20th 2010, 11:08 am
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Default Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by John & Kath
Its chicken and egg if there are no buses most will find a way either by car, with lifts, by taxi, bicycle or walk but if an extension of the Damas service to the Poligono to or three times a day was made it would be a start.
I absolutely agree. Then you drive to Ayamonte and do not know where to park. When you find a site, you have to go to the machine to pay the ticket. This problem doesn´t exist if there are a transportation services.

In Ayamonte, why don´t is the area of the ORA remove?. It generates more revenue the expropriated land and a private company build and manage a parking. The Town Hall generates revenue, the private company that manages it makes money and people can park for free and paid. Trade in Ayamonte benefits. People are not long in Ayamonte for fear of penalties.

In my opinion, it is not an issue of spending public money. The solution is to be creative.
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Old Apr 20th 2010, 11:38 am
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Default Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Thanks Jon for the info.

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl
Its all very suspect that we havent received minutes fpr AGES and when we do the 'meat' i.e the accounts are not there.

The EUC are doing themselves no favours when they continue to miscommunicate like this and then hide important information. Im surprised the treasurer hasnt sent out the accounts: Also at the AGM these were not properly presented and the agenda left a lot to be desired. For example we are liable for 2009 debts PLUS we need to budget for 2010.

The accounts and money in general, (eg accounts, BG etc) have been my key concerns.

I contacted L+G in March for some information. Here is the Q+A...My questions in Blue - their answers in red. BTW I have no issues with L+G as they have been responsive.

Regards
Jon

Please can you tell me if MF have paid ALL their bills. First question. Martinsa Fadesa has paid ALL their EUC bills.

2009
What was our total debt in 2009, please, for all the services we used, your bills etc. (This is a debt we are required to pay) Total 2009 debt 550.000 € aprox.

I believe this is ALL a debt - as no money was received in 2009. Please can you confirm. Yes, all debt. I confirm

My reply: I do not understand it. Budget 2009: Maintenance and cleaning (Confortservi): 450.000 €; maintenance gardening (Confortservi): 200.000 €; Security (Confortservi)-they were working a few months-: 85.000 € Administration, consulting and management (LGC): 80,000 € . Total: € 815,000.

2010
1. How much money have we ACTUALLY received in total from the residents please? Total money 490.000 € aprox.

My reply: Accounts 2009 (delivered at the meeting in February 2010): € 667.73 (total income).

2. If every resident has paid, what is the THEORETICAL amount we should received please? About 950.000 €, but you have to subtract 3.5 percent tax charged by management the collection of bills.

My reply: How??. Does the Town Hall charges a 3.5% of 950,000 € (=33,250€)?. Where it appears that spending in the budgets of 2009 and 2010?

Maybe I don´t understand it.

3. If I subtract the answer to number 1 from the answer to number 2 - the result will be the unpaid bills - and you will take legal action and a 20% surcharge. Am I correct please? I don´t understand this question very well, but the recharge to payment out of voluntary period is 5% now. Then will be 20% with the legal action.

My reply: it´s correct.

4. Will you present the answers to my questions for both 2009 and 2010 in the official minutes please? I think is possible.
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Old Apr 29th 2010, 2:21 pm
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Smile Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer
Thanks Jon for the info.
Just got back to Esuri to find that the next meeting of the RA is set for tomorrow Friday in the clubhouse at 18.30hrs do come along even at this short notice if we want change we must keep this moving.
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Old Apr 29th 2010, 9:20 pm
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Originally Posted by John & Kath
Just got back to Esuri to find that the next meeting of the RA is set for tomorrow Friday in the clubhouse at 18.30hrs do come along even at this short notice if we want change we must keep this moving.
Good luck.
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Old May 1st 2010, 7:39 pm
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Smile Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer
Good luck.
We will certainly need it! Meeting very sparsly attended but we took the decision to elect some interim officers and move forward. We decided that the appointments would only be for 4 months max so that a proper meeting can be held in August when most Residents would be at home in Esuri to hold proper elections to make longer term appointments.

In the interim we will move forward with the statutes and registration. In order to do that there will be a need for funds and to that end we have appointed 2 Social Secretaries who will come forward for an idea for a social event to be combined with a meeting in June to get things going.

IT MUST be stressed that all meetings are open and that all are welcome and next time we will post on as many fora as is possible and also place notices around Esuri so that no one can claim not to know.

I guess that the most important thing is to make sure that our June meeting does not coincide with any World Cup Matches

By the way East course is looking fantastic at the moment the west course is in deep maintenance on the greens and the weather is just perfect temps in the mid 20* and the pool is about 22* so swimming every evening. The days are long and the food is great so come on down join in and lets get Esuri into the position we all thought it would be.
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Old May 3rd 2010, 9:52 am
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Default Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl
Its all very suspect that we havent received minutes fpr AGES and when we do the 'meat' i.e the accounts are not there.

The EUC are doing themselves no favours when they continue to miscommunicate like this and then hide important information. Im surprised the treasurer hasnt sent out the accounts: Also at the AGM these were not properly presented and the agenda left a lot to be desired. For example we are liable for 2009 debts PLUS we need to budget for 2010.

The accounts and money in general, (eg accounts, BG etc) have been my key concerns.

I contacted L+G in March for some information. Here is the Q+A...My questions in Blue - their answers in red. BTW I have no issues with L+G as they have been responsive.

Regards
Jon

Please can you tell me if MF have paid ALL their bills. First question. Martinsa Fadesa has paid ALL their EUC bills.

2009
What was our total debt in 2009, please, for all the services we used, your bills etc. (This is a debt we are required to pay) Total 2009 debt 550.000 € aprox.

I believe this is ALL a debt - as no money was received in 2009. Please can you confirm. Yes, all debt. I confirm

2010
1. How much money have we ACTUALLY received in total from the residents please? Total money 490.000 € aprox.

2. If every resident has paid, what is the THEORETICAL amount we should received please? About 950.000 €, but you have to subtract 3.5 percent tax charged by management the collection of bills.

3. If I subtract the answer to number 1 from the answer to number 2 - the result will be the unpaid bills - and you will take legal action and a 20% surcharge. Am I correct please? I don´t understand this question very well, but the recharge to payment out of voluntary period is 5% now. Then will be 20% with the legal action.

4. Will you present the answers to my questions for both 2009 and 2010 in the official minutes please? I think is possible.
I would like to understand something:

Are the EUC legally obliged to present the accounts - after all we pay!

I got the info above in my earlier post, attached, by talking to L+G

I have some experience with appartments and the management committee that runs them. ALWAYS they present accounts. In fact the MONEY is always the most hotly debated subject.

I want to understand how the EUC board and the finance people therein can get away with hiding the numbers.

........... Is there something 'fishy' going on.................
............ Do they think we dont care - so they can GET AWAY with it.......


The AGM was in January... its now May and I havent seen proper accounts.

How can we accept this? There's no reason to hide this information, its our right to know it and it is very strange that they havent produced THE MOST IMPORTANT INFORMATION........... the accounts!!!!

When people hide the money - there is a reason... and often its not a good one!

Jon
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Old May 4th 2010, 4:08 pm
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Default Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl
I would like to understand something:

Are the EUC legally obliged to present the accounts - after all we pay!

I got the info above in my earlier post, attached, by talking to L+G

I have some experience with appartments and the management committee that runs them. ALWAYS they present accounts. In fact the MONEY is always the most hotly debated subject.

I want to understand how the EUC board and the finance people therein can get away with hiding the numbers.

........... Is there something 'fishy' going on.................
............ Do they think we dont care - so they can GET AWAY with it.......


The AGM was in January... its now May and I havent seen proper accounts.

How can we accept this? There's no reason to hide this information, its our right to know it and it is very strange that they havent produced THE MOST IMPORTANT INFORMATION........... the accounts!!!!

When people hide the money - there is a reason... and often its not a good one!

Jon
Each year, the Assembly has to approve the accounts for the previous year. As you say, is the same as in the communities, businesses, etc.

At the February meeting, LGC presented some accounts to December 2009. The Assembly voted on and approved. However, these accounts are not real.

As you know well, some people have paid and not accounted for.
However, you have every right to request a copy of the accounts, records of the Council and any other documentation.
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Old May 4th 2010, 7:16 pm
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Default Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

According to the EUC of CE statutes, and via Google translation (with my overtyping in red for some clarity):

"Title IV. Economic regime. Chapter 1. Fiscal year, budget and accounts.
Article 40. Annual Accounts.
Quarterly, the administrator (LGC) will make a balance sheet and statement of income and expenditure which will be linked to the cumulative budget to date, all of which will be operated by the Board of Regents (el Consejo Rector = the Board). At the end of each fiscal year, these statements may be subject to interference from censors (ie. an Audit of Accounts?), if they (Accountant?) had been appointed by the General Assembly (la Asamblea General = all of us) with this character (for this purpose). These statements will be made available for examination by each member of the Institution (EUC) in the five days preceding the celebration of the Assembly General Meeting (la Asamblea General Ordinaria = AGM)."

I understand it as such (and am open to correction):
1. The Administrator is the custodian of the documentation of the EUC.
2. The documentation is available to view 5 days prior to an AGM from the Administrator. How many people were able to read the accounts (not to confuse these with the Presupuesto or Budget) prior to the February 2010 AGM? How many people at the AGM were aware at the time when this motion to approve the accounts was raised? (A small group according to the minutes of the meeting.)
3. The audit of accounts needs to be requested to the Board by the members of the EUC at the AGM. IMO, it should be included in the Agenda (Orden del Día). The President sets the Agenda, and follows the points listed on this agenda UNLESS a member at the AGM claims that another point of equal value needs to be put to the vote.
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Old May 6th 2010, 11:49 am
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Default Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl
I would like to understand something:

Are the EUC legally obliged to present the accounts - after all we pay!

I got the info above in my earlier post, attached, by talking to L+G

I have some experience with appartments and the management committee that runs them. ALWAYS they present accounts. In fact the MONEY is always the most hotly debated subject.

I want to understand how the EUC board and the finance people therein can get away with hiding the numbers.

........... Is there something 'fishy' going on.................
............ Do they think we dont care - so they can GET AWAY with it.......


The AGM was in January... its now May and I havent seen proper accounts.

How can we accept this? There's no reason to hide this information, its our right to know it and it is very strange that they havent produced THE MOST IMPORTANT INFORMATION........... the accounts!!!!

When people hide the money - there is a reason... and often its not a good one!

Jon
The English translation of the minutes of the February EUC meeting stated that the 2009 accounts were exhibited at the Town Hall for eight days prior to the meeting (similarly I suspect was the 2010 budget). However, that's a fat lot of use if nobody was made aware of this prior to the meeting. Were they presented in both Spanish and English? Also, the minutes of the meeting should have contained a far more detailed summary of the 2009 accounts, and 2010 budget (should these not have been included as attachments?).

I certainly share Jon's concern as to the manner in which the EUC accounts are being organised. It would seem that there was a debt of 550,000€ in 2009. Where does the money come from to pay for that? I believe that the planned expenditure for 2010 is 900,000€ approx. So far the 2010 income is 490,000€. What happens if the shorfashortfallt made up (as I believe it won't be)? I sincerely hope that the EUC is not accumulating debts that we have to pay considerable extra in the future.

Is the administration company taking action against non-payers? Doesn't Spanish law call for lists of non-payers be made public to EUC members? I am prepared to accept that Fadesa have paid their dues, but they are not the only developers. Have Albatross Golf, Sun and Sea, and the numerous other developers with completed properties including villas, paid their dues? What about Tasa, who I understand went bankrupt. Do the accumulated EUC subs of their uncompleted properties remain with them, to be payed by the developers who surely will eventually take these over?

I feel that we need some answers to the questions posed above. It will then be possible for us to take the action necessary to ensure that the EUC progresses under our control rather than as a runaway engine.

Taff
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Old May 6th 2010, 6:39 pm
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Smile Re: INAUGRAL MEETING OF THE COSTA ESURI RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION

Originally Posted by CAROL TAFF
The English translation of the minutes of the February EUC meeting stated that the 2009 accounts were exhibited at the Town Hall for eight days prior to the meeting (similarly I suspect was the 2010 budget). However, that's a fat lot of use if nobody was made aware of this prior to the meeting. Were they presented in both Spanish and English? Also, the minutes of the meeting should have contained a far more detailed summary of the 2009 accounts, and 2010 budget (should these not have been included as attachments?).

I certainly share Jon's concern as to the manner in which the EUC accounts are being organised. It would seem that there was a debt of 550,000€ in 2009. Where does the money come from to pay for that? I believe that the planned expenditure for 2010 is 900,000€ approx. So far the 2010 income is 490,000€. What happens if the shorfashortfallt made up (as I believe it won't be)? I sincerely hope that the EUC is not accumulating debts that we have to pay considerable extra in the future.

Is the administration company taking action against non-payers? Doesn't Spanish law call for lists of non-payers be made public to EUC members? I am prepared to accept that Fadesa have paid their dues, but they are not the only developers. Have Albatross Golf, Sun and Sea, and the numerous other developers with completed properties including villas, paid their dues? What about Tasa, who I understand went bankrupt. Do the accumulated EUC subs of their uncompleted properties remain with them, to be payed by the developers who surely will eventually take these over?

I feel that we need some answers to the questions posed above. It will then be possible for us to take the action necessary to ensure that the EUC progresses under our control rather than as a runaway engine.

Taff
I think Tasa is different they were not part of the original planning approval and are not shown on the development plan issued by Fadesa. If they are part of the EUC I would think we have lost their cash since they have properly gone bust not trading out of administration as is Fadesa.
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