Illegal Gas Fitter
Nov 4th 2013, 12:09 pm
#1
Started off with nothing
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,946
Illegal Gas Fitter
There was a post about illegal gas fitters working in Spain 
My apologies I can't find it now.
It is not only in Spain this happens. You might be interested to read this shocking story from the UK. IMHO the sentence was very lenient for a repeat offender. Goodness knows how many customers he has defrauded since 2006. I guess many may not even be aware their lives are at risk?
My apologies I can't find it now.It is not only in Spain this happens. You might be interested to read this shocking story from the UK. IMHO the sentence was very lenient for a repeat offender. Goodness knows how many customers he has defrauded since 2006. I guess many may not even be aware their lives are at risk?
Plumber in court over illegal gas work
Date:
1 November 2013
A Milton Keynes plumber has been fined after putting householders at risk over many years after he repeatedly carried out gas fitting work while unqualified and unregistered.
Andrew Barnes, trading as APB Home Services Ltd, was found to have undertaken gas fitting work dating back to 2006. An investigation by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) found that he deliberately and consistently pretended to be officially registered with Gas Safe and its predecessor, CORGI.
Mr Barnes ignored three warning letters from HSE and continued to advertise himself as a competent, registered gas engineer and to undertake illegal work on gas fittings and appliances in homes in the Milton Keynes area.
Milton Keynes Magistrates’ Court heard today (1 Nov) that Mr Barnes, a plumber for over 30 years, traded as APB Home Services Ltd and was the sole worker in his company. He had never been trained to work with gas and neither he nor his company had ever been on official gas safety registers.
Despite that, the CORGI and Gas Safe logos appeared on his paperwork and on his website, and he regularly issued landlord gas safety records for the work he had completed.
Andrew Barnes, 52, of Furze Way, Wolverton, Milton Keynes was given a three year conditional discharge and ordered to pay costs of £600 after pleading guilty to two breaches of the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998. APB Home Services was fined £300 and ordered to pay costs of £525 for a single breach of the same Regulations.
After the case, HSE Inspector Robert Meardon said:
“This was not an isolated lapse but a prolonged and deliberate deception that could have put lives at risk across the Milton Keynes area.
“Mr Barnes was well aware of the risks but chose to ignore them – as he chose to ignore the specific warnings from HSE.
“People can die as a result of gas leaks. It is vital that only registered gas engineers, who are trained and competent, work on gas appliances and fittings. Registered engineers are on the Gas Safe Register.
“Unless you are on this Register, you should not undertake this work. If you are a landlord or a home owner, you need to make sure that you only use someone who is on the Register.”
Russell Kramer chief executive of Gas Safe Register, added:
“Every Gas Safe registered engineer carries a Gas Safe ID card, which shows who they are and the type of gas appliances they are qualified to work on.
“We always encourage the public to ask for and check the card and if they have any concerns about the safety of work carried out in their home, to speak to us. Every year we investigate thousands of reports of illegal gas work. Call us on 0800 408 5500 or visit our website at www.gassaferegister.co.uk.”
Further information about gas safety can be found online at www.hse.gov.uk/gas
Date:
1 November 2013
A Milton Keynes plumber has been fined after putting householders at risk over many years after he repeatedly carried out gas fitting work while unqualified and unregistered.
Andrew Barnes, trading as APB Home Services Ltd, was found to have undertaken gas fitting work dating back to 2006. An investigation by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) found that he deliberately and consistently pretended to be officially registered with Gas Safe and its predecessor, CORGI.
Mr Barnes ignored three warning letters from HSE and continued to advertise himself as a competent, registered gas engineer and to undertake illegal work on gas fittings and appliances in homes in the Milton Keynes area.
Milton Keynes Magistrates’ Court heard today (1 Nov) that Mr Barnes, a plumber for over 30 years, traded as APB Home Services Ltd and was the sole worker in his company. He had never been trained to work with gas and neither he nor his company had ever been on official gas safety registers.
Despite that, the CORGI and Gas Safe logos appeared on his paperwork and on his website, and he regularly issued landlord gas safety records for the work he had completed.
Andrew Barnes, 52, of Furze Way, Wolverton, Milton Keynes was given a three year conditional discharge and ordered to pay costs of £600 after pleading guilty to two breaches of the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998. APB Home Services was fined £300 and ordered to pay costs of £525 for a single breach of the same Regulations.
After the case, HSE Inspector Robert Meardon said:
“This was not an isolated lapse but a prolonged and deliberate deception that could have put lives at risk across the Milton Keynes area.
“Mr Barnes was well aware of the risks but chose to ignore them – as he chose to ignore the specific warnings from HSE.
“People can die as a result of gas leaks. It is vital that only registered gas engineers, who are trained and competent, work on gas appliances and fittings. Registered engineers are on the Gas Safe Register.
“Unless you are on this Register, you should not undertake this work. If you are a landlord or a home owner, you need to make sure that you only use someone who is on the Register.”
Russell Kramer chief executive of Gas Safe Register, added:
“Every Gas Safe registered engineer carries a Gas Safe ID card, which shows who they are and the type of gas appliances they are qualified to work on.
“We always encourage the public to ask for and check the card and if they have any concerns about the safety of work carried out in their home, to speak to us. Every year we investigate thousands of reports of illegal gas work. Call us on 0800 408 5500 or visit our website at www.gassaferegister.co.uk.”
Further information about gas safety can be found online at www.hse.gov.uk/gas
Nov 7th 2013, 12:24 pm
#2
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: Illegal Gas Fitter
so what was his crime - carrying out unsafe gas installations or carrying out safe installations, just not having the correct certification ?
electrical installations can also be lethal but how many people ask if an electrician has Edition 17 training and certificate.?
ISTR a friend of mine being most upset about the cost of having to change the logo from Corgi to Gas-Safe, letalone the cost of certification being in excess of £1200 + the maintenance of the kit he uses - for what is only 10% max of his actual plumbing work.
electrical installations can also be lethal but how many people ask if an electrician has Edition 17 training and certificate.?
ISTR a friend of mine being most upset about the cost of having to change the logo from Corgi to Gas-Safe, letalone the cost of certification being in excess of £1200 + the maintenance of the kit he uses - for what is only 10% max of his actual plumbing work.
Nov 7th 2013, 1:29 pm
#3
Started off with nothing
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,946
Re: Illegal Gas Fitter
The article quite clearly states his "crime" was carrying out gas fitting work 2006 through 2013 with neither appropriate training or a gas safe certificate.
I also have a friend who is a gas safe engineer.
Your friend is talking bollocks. The cost of annual on-line re-registration for one engineer is £155 plus an additional £55 for any additional engineers.
The toolkit required is not expensive. Perhaps you can ask your friend to itemise the kit he thinks is necessary?
Typical charge for LL gas certificate is £120. Very easy money and your friend would recover his financial outlay with two call outs.
guilty to two breaches of the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998.
Your friend is talking bollocks. The cost of annual on-line re-registration for one engineer is £155 plus an additional £55 for any additional engineers.
The toolkit required is not expensive. Perhaps you can ask your friend to itemise the kit he thinks is necessary?
Typical charge for LL gas certificate is £120. Very easy money and your friend would recover his financial outlay with two call outs.
Last edited by missile; Nov 7th 2013 at 1:32 pm.
Nov 7th 2013, 7:12 pm
#4
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: Illegal Gas Fitter
The article quite clearly states his "crime" was carrying out gas fitting work 2006 through 2013 with neither appropriate training or a gas safe certificate.
I also have a friend who is a gas safe engineer.
Your friend is talking bollocks. The cost of annual on-line re-registration for one engineer is £155 plus an additional £55 for any additional engineers.
The toolkit required is not expensive. Perhaps you can ask your friend to itemise the kit he thinks is necessary?
Typical charge for LL gas certificate is £120. Very easy money and your friend would recover his financial outlay with two call outs.
I also have a friend who is a gas safe engineer.
Your friend is talking bollocks. The cost of annual on-line re-registration for one engineer is £155 plus an additional £55 for any additional engineers.
The toolkit required is not expensive. Perhaps you can ask your friend to itemise the kit he thinks is necessary?
Typical charge for LL gas certificate is £120. Very easy money and your friend would recover his financial outlay with two call outs.
sorry if I am being obstructive, but taking an initial low level certificate may be cheap but when you are the self employed owner of a business where such certification is the life blood to your business and puts you above the "ordinary" plumber then you have to comply at the highest level. This applies to many many things - UK or abroad.
As others have said - make sure of the person/business you are using.
https://engineers.gassaferegister.co...registered.pdf
Nov 8th 2013, 7:50 am
#5
Started off with nothing
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,946
Re: Illegal Gas Fitter
as my last LL cert cost £75 + VAT, and that I have known the guy for over 10 years why should I believe someone who makes a post on the internet ??
sorry if I am being obstructive, but taking an initial low level certificate may be cheap but when you are the self employed owner of a business where such certification is the life blood to your business and puts you above the "ordinary" plumber then you have to comply at the highest level. This applies to many many things - UK or abroad.
As others have said - make sure of the person/business you are using.
https://engineers.gassaferegister.co...registered.pdf
sorry if I am being obstructive, but taking an initial low level certificate may be cheap but when you are the self employed owner of a business where such certification is the life blood to your business and puts you above the "ordinary" plumber then you have to comply at the highest level. This applies to many many things - UK or abroad.
As others have said - make sure of the person/business you are using.
https://engineers.gassaferegister.co...registered.pdf
Registration
9. How much does it cost to register?
Application fee
(includes one engineer): £365.00 (excl VAT)
Non-web registration renewal fee
(includes one engineer): £175.00 (excl VAT)
Web registration renewal fee
(includes one engineer): £155.00 (excl VAT)
Additional engineer: £53.00 (excl VAT) per engineer
9. How much does it cost to register?
Application fee
(includes one engineer): £365.00 (excl VAT)
Non-web registration renewal fee
(includes one engineer): £175.00 (excl VAT)
Web registration renewal fee
(includes one engineer): £155.00 (excl VAT)
Additional engineer: £53.00 (excl VAT) per engineer
ISTR a friend of mine being most upset about the cost of having to change the logo from Corgi to Gas-Safe, let alone the cost of certification being in excess of £1200 + the maintenance of the kit he uses
Last edited by missile; Nov 8th 2013 at 7:57 am.
Nov 25th 2013, 9:07 am
#6
Started off with nothing
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,946
Re: Illegal Gas Fitter
I find it strange how inconsistent sentencing can be in the UK.
Illegal gas fitter jailed for dangerous installation
Date:22 November 2013
A London landlord has been jailed for endangering his tenants after he illegally installed a boiler that he then repeatedly tried to fix after it developed a leak.
Harpal Singh, 53, attempted to repair his faulty handiwork at the Tottenham Hale property on three occasions before a concerned tenant phoned National Grid for help. A qualified technician then immediately disconnected the gas supply.
A subsequent investigation revealed six faults with his installation, and clear evidence that he had failed to appoint a Gas Safe registered engineer to do the work, as the law requires.
Westminster Magistrates Court was told today (22 November) that Mr Singh installed the boiler and associated pipework at a three-bedroomed house on Montague Road in January 2013. His tenants immediately complained of a strong smell of gas throughout the property, and continued to do so despite a number of visits to rectify the problem.
It wasn’t until 8 May that National Grid intervened to disconnect the supply. A Gas Safe investigation then highlighted clear faults with the work, and with Mr Singh’s legal duty of care as a landlord.
There was nothing to suggest he had appointed a competent person to do the work, and no certification to show that another gas appliance at the property had been annually checked, as the law also states.
The matter was passed to the Health and Safety Executive (HSE), who prosecuted him for three separate breaches of the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998.
Harpal Singh, of Higham Road, London, N17, was jailed for a total of 26 weeks and ordered to pay £1,852 in costs after pleading guilty to all three breaches.
The judge ruled that imprisonment was justified to reflect his high culpability and the fact he acted “fast and loose” with the lives of his tenants.
After the hearing HSE Inspector Lisa Chappell said:
“The regulations covering landlords’ duties relating to gas appliances in their properties are unambiguous, and clearly state that only qualified engineers are permitted to undertake gas installations, checks and maintenance.
“Mr Singh should have known this, and his negligence could have cost lives. Faulty installations can cause fires, explosions or carbon monoxide poisoning, and that is why only Gas Safe registered engineers should be used.
“There are many instances where landlords fail to fulfil their duties, and I hope today’s case serves as a reminder that we will prosecute when that is the case.”
Russell Kramer, Chief Executive of Gas Safe Register, commented:
“Every Gas Safe registered engineer carries a Gas Safe ID card, which shows who they are and the type of gas work they are qualified to do. You can check if your engineer is legal and safe by asking for the card and if you have any concerns, contact us by calling 0800 408 5500 or visit our website at www.gassaferegister.co.uk link to external website.”
Date:22 November 2013
A London landlord has been jailed for endangering his tenants after he illegally installed a boiler that he then repeatedly tried to fix after it developed a leak.
Harpal Singh, 53, attempted to repair his faulty handiwork at the Tottenham Hale property on three occasions before a concerned tenant phoned National Grid for help. A qualified technician then immediately disconnected the gas supply.
A subsequent investigation revealed six faults with his installation, and clear evidence that he had failed to appoint a Gas Safe registered engineer to do the work, as the law requires.
Westminster Magistrates Court was told today (22 November) that Mr Singh installed the boiler and associated pipework at a three-bedroomed house on Montague Road in January 2013. His tenants immediately complained of a strong smell of gas throughout the property, and continued to do so despite a number of visits to rectify the problem.
It wasn’t until 8 May that National Grid intervened to disconnect the supply. A Gas Safe investigation then highlighted clear faults with the work, and with Mr Singh’s legal duty of care as a landlord.
There was nothing to suggest he had appointed a competent person to do the work, and no certification to show that another gas appliance at the property had been annually checked, as the law also states.
The matter was passed to the Health and Safety Executive (HSE), who prosecuted him for three separate breaches of the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998.
Harpal Singh, of Higham Road, London, N17, was jailed for a total of 26 weeks and ordered to pay £1,852 in costs after pleading guilty to all three breaches.
The judge ruled that imprisonment was justified to reflect his high culpability and the fact he acted “fast and loose” with the lives of his tenants.
After the hearing HSE Inspector Lisa Chappell said:
“The regulations covering landlords’ duties relating to gas appliances in their properties are unambiguous, and clearly state that only qualified engineers are permitted to undertake gas installations, checks and maintenance.
“Mr Singh should have known this, and his negligence could have cost lives. Faulty installations can cause fires, explosions or carbon monoxide poisoning, and that is why only Gas Safe registered engineers should be used.
“There are many instances where landlords fail to fulfil their duties, and I hope today’s case serves as a reminder that we will prosecute when that is the case.”
Russell Kramer, Chief Executive of Gas Safe Register, commented:
“Every Gas Safe registered engineer carries a Gas Safe ID card, which shows who they are and the type of gas work they are qualified to do. You can check if your engineer is legal and safe by asking for the card and if you have any concerns, contact us by calling 0800 408 5500 or visit our website at www.gassaferegister.co.uk link to external website.”
Nov 25th 2013, 2:26 pm
#7
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Finally now living in Lo Marabu, Rojales, and it feels like home
Posts: 3,569
Re: Illegal Gas Fitter
Before we left the UK the guy who came to do the boiler was relative of the owner and carried out work but he was not registered, they just did the work when no tenant was at the property his name was Mr Singh too, It was not about the money though. He was only doing it for that house, I think a mate of mine also tinkers about with it and he is just a bog std plumber but again its the landlords who don't want to pay it.
Nov 25th 2013, 5:28 pm
#8
Started off with nothing
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,946
Re: Illegal Gas Fitter
I was shocked to find out how common it is for unqualified people to meddle with gas appliances. IMHO there is no excuse and those who are caught should be jailed. That might serve as a deterrent for others.
Nov 26th 2013, 8:05 am
#9
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: Illegal Gas Fitter
I had electrical work carried out and also an NICEIC certificate for the whole house. Turned out the electrician I was recommended (by the letting agent) was employed by a certified electrician but also working on his own.
when the certs arrived they were signed not by the guy doing the work and testing but by the guy who was authorised to do so - who had never been to the house.
so they are both involved.
having seen the level of testing that can be involved for certification - had a computer room stripped and rewired and this was put forward as an example of the work of the company and the guy involved - they are very hot indeed, but then perhaps it is only what is put to the inspector, and he doesn't select work on the basis of the certificates issued
good friend of mine is a plumber, wants to be certified but costs put him off (see post above) but he does all the work and then gets in a certified gas engineer to check his work and write the certificate
when the certs arrived they were signed not by the guy doing the work and testing but by the guy who was authorised to do so - who had never been to the house.
so they are both involved.
having seen the level of testing that can be involved for certification - had a computer room stripped and rewired and this was put forward as an example of the work of the company and the guy involved - they are very hot indeed, but then perhaps it is only what is put to the inspector, and he doesn't select work on the basis of the certificates issued
good friend of mine is a plumber, wants to be certified but costs put him off (see post above) but he does all the work and then gets in a certified gas engineer to check his work and write the certificate
Nov 26th 2013, 8:08 am
#10
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Velez-Malaga
Posts: 4,917
Re: Illegal Gas Fitter
I had electrical work carried out and also an NICEIC certificate for the whole house. Turned out the electrician I was recommended (by the letting agent) was employed by a certified electrician but also working on his own.
when the certs arrived they were signed not by the guy doing the work and testing but by the guy who was authorised to do so - who had never been to the house.
so they are both involved.
when the certs arrived they were signed not by the guy doing the work and testing but by the guy who was authorised to do so - who had never been to the house.
so they are both involved.
Nov 26th 2013, 8:30 am
#11
Started off with nothing
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,946
Re: Illegal Gas Fitter
Unfortunately, as Domino says this is common in both Spain and UK.
What SHOULD happen is the "trainees" work is supervised by the qualified electrician. He should review the work at stages and check on completion before signing the boletin.
What SHOULD happen is the "trainees" work is supervised by the qualified electrician. He should review the work at stages and check on completion before signing the boletin.
Dec 4th 2013, 10:27 am
#12
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 265
Re: Illegal Gas Fitter
Hi,
The UK regulations are confusing
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...ulation/3/made
and comes down to how a " competent person" is defined. This is usually done by the Health and Safety Executive who have subcontracted the task admin to Gas Safe (previously to Corgi). Nowhere does it say that work by an Gas Safe unregistered fitter is unsafe. It is common for a certified fitter or electrician to sign off work of someone they "supervise" which is how trades have always worked and the only way to get site experience.
The UK regulations are confusing
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...ulation/3/made
and comes down to how a " competent person" is defined. This is usually done by the Health and Safety Executive who have subcontracted the task admin to Gas Safe (previously to Corgi). Nowhere does it say that work by an Gas Safe unregistered fitter is unsafe. It is common for a certified fitter or electrician to sign off work of someone they "supervise" which is how trades have always worked and the only way to get site experience.
Dec 4th 2013, 11:38 am
#13
Started off with nothing
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,946
Re: Illegal Gas Fitter
The Regulation seems pretty clear to me
and
no employer shall allow any of his employees to carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or service pipework and no self-employed person shall carry out any such work, unless the employer or self-employed person, as the case may be, is a member of a class of persons approved for the time being by the Health and Safety Executive for the purposes of this paragraph.
Duty on employer
4. Where an employer or a self-employed person requires any work in relation to a gas fitting to be carried out at any place of work under his control or where an employer or self-employed person has control to any extent of work in relation to a gas fitting, he shall take reasonable steps to ensure that the person undertaking that work is, or is employed by, a member of a class of persons approved by the Health and Safety Executive under regulation 3(3) above.
4. Where an employer or a self-employed person requires any work in relation to a gas fitting to be carried out at any place of work under his control or where an employer or self-employed person has control to any extent of work in relation to a gas fitting, he shall take reasonable steps to ensure that the person undertaking that work is, or is employed by, a member of a class of persons approved by the Health and Safety Executive under regulation 3(3) above.
Dec 4th 2013, 12:39 pm
#14
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 265
Re: Illegal Gas Fitter
Before you get to the partial, out of context, quotes you have picked - and we can all do this
(3) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraphs (1) and (2) above and subject to paragraph (4)....
Where (1) says
(1) No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.
Which goes round to the whose definition of "a competent person" you want to use.
(3) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraphs (1) and (2) above and subject to paragraph (4)....
Where (1) says
(1) No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.
Which goes round to the whose definition of "a competent person" you want to use.
Dec 4th 2013, 12:54 pm
#15
Started off with nothing
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,946
Re: Illegal Gas Fitter
As I said, the Regulation seems clear to me. I have quoted the paras where a competent person is defined.
You may argue semantics, but cannot argue with the fact:
Employers who have deemed non gas safe registered employees "competent" have been prosecuted by the HSE and convicted for non compliance with said regulation.
You may argue semantics, but cannot argue with the fact:
Employers who have deemed non gas safe registered employees "competent" have been prosecuted by the HSE and convicted for non compliance with said regulation.
Last edited by missile; Dec 4th 2013 at 12:57 pm.