Lestatiger

Hi
Sorry to ask a question that I suppose has been asked loads before but can you help me?
Myself and my wife want to buy a bar or something similar in the costa del sol/ marbella area and I'm thinking of coming out to work whilst we look for somewhere suitable and my wife stays here to sort out the sale of our house etc.
I am a 53 year old fully qualified, experienced chef - is there much work out in the area and could anyone help with suitable agencies etc?
What are my options for somewhere to live whilst I'm out on my own - we're looking for a long term rent for when my wife comes out to join me.

Thanks

LT

Fred James

It has been asked a million times before and the answer is almost always the same.

It is almost impossible to get a job in Spain - unemployment is running at 25% and will get worse - especially if you don't speak fluent Spanish.


Buying a bar is a recipe for losing all your money very fast.

Finding a rental property is not difficult as the property market has crashed and people who cannot sell are renting.

Sorry but my advice would be don't even think about it. You are much better off in the UK.

Lestatiger

how come you're still there then???????????

Fred James

I'm retired and am lucky enough to have a very big pension.

Lestatiger

so are you saying that there are no chef jobs at all in spain and everyone who buys a bar loses all their money?

Fred James

No but there are plenty of chefs in Spain and they don't really need any more. With the recent increases in VAT many places will close as a result of the reduction in the spending power of their customers and the increase in their bills.

From the experiences of many that have posted on this forum in the past, the suggestion of opening another bar will be met with complete negativity.

Some bars make money but they are well established. The only ones for sale are those that have failed.

I am sorry if I appear to be very blunt on this subject but it just happens to be the truth.

It has been said many times before but the only way to end up with a million in Spain is to bring two million with you.

Fredbargate

Read the front page

Paradise Lost

http://www.theolivepress.es/print-edition/

Lestatiger

Whilst I appreciate that there are problems in spain - there are problems in the uk too but some people still earn a living there - and I respect the opinion of those of you who are out there, my recent experience of being in calahonda tells a slightly different story.
Many of the bars and restaurants are full every single night and there are many places advertising for staff.
I was really looking for advice as to how to go about this rather than doom-mongers who, whilst happy to live there themselves seem to want to put others off of doing the same.
I appreciate that there are difficulties and also appreciate that people lose their jobs and end up on the streets but just because that happens to some should it put everyone off?
In the UK there are many people on the streets but also many who make a good living out of there own business
My wife and I have extensive experience in the catering industry and feel we have what it takes to succeed but I was just asking for advice on legal stuff and that kind of thing.
Thanks

jackytoo

Calahonda say no more, they don't have Chefs ther

lynnxa

well in that case - if there are lots of jobs in Calahonda go for it!

just make sure they give you a proper contract

if you find a bar you want to buy, don't use the abogado suggested by the agent or the owner - & also get a gestor to check the books.............. & then the 'other' set of books

visit it at different times of day & on different days - & definitely unannounced - the day you go on a planned viewing they will have 'rent-a-crowd' in

Fredbargate

If you have enough money to live out here for 3 to 6 months without working then wait until September or later and visit out of season.
Spend time visiting the area of your choice both at weekends and in the week at various times of the day to get a fuller picture of the situation.
There are plenty of rentals so there is no accommodation problem, remember cash is KING in the rental market as elsewhere.

amideislas

A common mistake newbies make is to assume that if someone tells you something, it's the truth, because up there, you have the OFT and laws which make such fraudulent claims punishable.

We also have them here, but enforcement is virtually nonexistent, so it's common for people to tell you whatever you want to hear, even forge documents if necessary, because once you give up the money, it's over.

I'd have to agree with the others. The only way to know is to know. Be a "stealth" customer at first, and if that doesn't scare you away, first thing to do is get your hands on BOTH sets of books.

jojojojojo

Assuming you are totally bilingual, that you understand all the rules, regulations, permissions in Spain and that you are both experienced at owning and running a bar, then you stand a small chance of breaking even. If you are none of the above, then why do you think it will work??? Why dont you have a practice run first in the UK - it is so much easier in the UK - if only cos you'll understand the language and the rules! Once you're comfortable with that, then maybe look to Spain, by then, things may have picked up

Apart from that, the only useful advice I can give are:
*A successful bar thats for sale is very rare, highly sought after and expensive.
*An unsuccessful bar is going to be advertised everywhere you go and as cheap as chips, probably bought before by a Brit who thought he could turn it around where others had failed!
*Always look at the books - altho lots of transactions either way probably wont be recorded.
*Visit the bars when you're not expected. I used to go along to bars for free drinks with a crowd of others to do a favour for an agent friend of mine to make bars look busy - rent a crowd!
*Never use the abogado that is recommended to you, unlike the UK they are prone to being strangers to the truth and will know if you're new and naive and take full advantage of that.
*Most of all understand the rules, laws, regulations. Do not go into anything thinking that spain is easy. They have key money, deposits, taxes, IVA/VAT, inspectors, health and safety, contracts, fees for having tables outside, scammers, protection racketeers and cold wet winters that have to be saved for throughout the summer!
*Do your sums and costings yourself. Work it out and dont use the previous owners figures. Have a viable business plan

If you want to go for it then thats your choice, just remember knowledge is king, so do your research, make several visits, talk to bar owners, get a feel for things, for life, for the cost of overheads, the hours worked, the amount of time off, the cost of living in general.....

and the one most important thing - do not believe for one second that the problems in the UK are anywhere near as bad as they are in Spain!


jo xxx

JLFS

You will see a quite a lot of jobs advertised for a couple of reasons, the first one being that the summer months are the busiest time of the year for resorts such a C.honda.

Another reason is that a lot of employers have and are taking advantage of the new labour laws that have reduced the compo days paid to emplyess by half if they can show it is for economic reasons.

Everyone knew that this law was coming into force so a lot of firms delayed kicking people out of their jobs until the law was brought in, then got rid of te staff they were not happy with, using economic hardship as the reason.

After getting rid of said employees, then after waiting a while they were then able to take on summer staff, because surprise surprise business has improved.

So quite often the "staff wanted" notices are a sign of job losses, instead of a positive change, as after they busy summer is over the employer will have no problem getting rid of the staff that have been hired for summer, with a much smaller payout in compo.

JLFS

Books are nothing they are a record for the owner to show the buyer, nowt else as
"books" as such are not submitted to the authorities.
I have often seen people pouring over ledger type books, all fiction.

You need to see the VAT, tax, SS payments, bills from suppliers, TC1s, staff contracts, utility bills etc