How to Sign on the PADRON and become EMPADRONMIENTO
Nov 15th 2010, 3:14 pm
#76
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Puente Esuri
Posts: 6,903
Re: Voting in the Mayoral elections
Thanks John, as ever...
it looks easy when you put it this way... but as Fred said its illegal for people like me. So this tells me that we cant sign up and vote. So there must be some sort of 'check and balance' somewhere.
I am totally cynical when it comes to our Mayor, so its in his interest to use the illegality of signing on to stop us 'climbing the stairs' - but he doesnt. Why not? We arent his fans - its probable that he will lose votes through us as we've both said!! So this tells me that we can sign up and vote...
Therefore it seems that there are 2 differing opinions here...
Anyway lets chat about this over a beer and then get onto other things over the next FEW beers from tomorrow
I'm getting the feeling that this is more difficult than expected and the answer is not cut and dried - and undertandably no-one really knows the full answer.
I hope this will lead to a simple way where we can sign up, without 'overhead' and vote for our interests - and make things happen.
Jon
it looks easy when you put it this way... but as Fred said its illegal for people like me. So this tells me that we cant sign up and vote. So there must be some sort of 'check and balance' somewhere.
I am totally cynical when it comes to our Mayor, so its in his interest to use the illegality of signing on to stop us 'climbing the stairs' - but he doesnt. Why not? We arent his fans - its probable that he will lose votes through us as we've both said!! So this tells me that we can sign up and vote...
Therefore it seems that there are 2 differing opinions here...
- OK for non-residents to sign up and vote.... and
- Illegal for us to do it
Anyway lets chat about this over a beer and then get onto other things over the next FEW beers from tomorrow
I'm getting the feeling that this is more difficult than expected and the answer is not cut and dried - and undertandably no-one really knows the full answer.
I hope this will lead to a simple way where we can sign up, without 'overhead' and vote for our interests - and make things happen.
Jon
Last edited by EsuriJohn; Nov 15th 2010 at 3:19 pm.
Nov 15th 2010, 3:16 pm
#77
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Puente Esuri
Posts: 6,903
Nov 15th 2010, 3:16 pm
#78
BE Positive
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,980
Re: How to Sign on the PADRON and become EMPADRONMIENTO
If you read Fred's post carefully - and particularly translate the Spanish legal requirement - it states that every person habitually living in Spain MUST sign on the padron. It does NOT say that temporary residents may NOT.
The fact that I and many other occasional residents have been allowed and encouraged to register (indeed it was our solicitor who suggested that we sign up) suggests that it is quite in order and legal.
The fact that I and many other occasional residents have been allowed and encouraged to register (indeed it was our solicitor who suggested that we sign up) suggests that it is quite in order and legal.
I understand the point you are making, but in Freds post - (I dont read Spanish) ... I read the bit where he said that we are excluded from signing on.
So you will understand my confusion and if 1 person is confused its likely that others are too.
We'll get there soon and I'd love to post a simple (universally agreed) step by step list on the forum so that every non-resident 2nd home owner knows exactly how to sign on - how then to vote..... and then elect a mayor that actually cares about Costa Esuri!
Thanks
Jon
Last edited by Jon-Bxl; Nov 15th 2010 at 3:54 pm.
Nov 15th 2010, 4:10 pm
#79
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,675
Re: How to Sign on the PADRON and become EMPADRONMIENTO
If you go to the following web site (thanks John)
https://sede.ine.gob.es/ss/Satellite...ica%2FSELayout
Note: This has a drop-down menu in the top right that allows you to select language - so lack of spanish is not an obstacle.]
It tells you the rules under which foreigners may vote in municipal elections (note this does not include national or EU elections). For non-EU citizens there is a residency duration requirement, for citizens of EU Member States there does not appear to be a duration of residency in Spain requirement (which is correct under the Treaty of Rome)
You need to be on the Register of Foreigners - that means you must have an NIE or (Spanish Foreigners ID Card)
You then need to be on the local electoral roll. This can be done on line on the same web site or upstairs at the town hall. You would need to take your proofs of identity (NIE, Passport, Escritura or Utility bill)
You do not need to be empadronameinto to register for elections.
The padron is the local census upon which the capitation for federal, regional and provincial grant aid funding is made to Ayamonte - the more names on the Padron the more funds.
Note: The detailed regulations which include the application forms on the site are pdf documents in Spanish - but fear not. Google has a reasonable translator but better is the translation service provided by Microsoft Office. To use, open the pdf document, select all text and copy and paste into a blank MSWord document. Then you can use the <translate> function in either the tools add-on in older versions or in the <Review> menu in MSWord2010.
For EU elections being on the Padron seems to automatically generate a request from the EU register in Huelva to sign up for EU elections - which will be in May next year at the same time as the municipal elections. Very similar to the UK. But don't get technical about postal voting if you want to be in the UK and vote in the Spanish consituency. The INE site seems to be issuing digital certficates which suggests that one should be able to access electoral services on line, but I cant tell if that includes actual voting.
https://sede.ine.gob.es/ss/Satellite...ica%2FSELayout
Note: This has a drop-down menu in the top right that allows you to select language - so lack of spanish is not an obstacle.]
It tells you the rules under which foreigners may vote in municipal elections (note this does not include national or EU elections). For non-EU citizens there is a residency duration requirement, for citizens of EU Member States there does not appear to be a duration of residency in Spain requirement (which is correct under the Treaty of Rome)
You need to be on the Register of Foreigners - that means you must have an NIE or (Spanish Foreigners ID Card)
You then need to be on the local electoral roll. This can be done on line on the same web site or upstairs at the town hall. You would need to take your proofs of identity (NIE, Passport, Escritura or Utility bill)
You do not need to be empadronameinto to register for elections.
The padron is the local census upon which the capitation for federal, regional and provincial grant aid funding is made to Ayamonte - the more names on the Padron the more funds.
Note: The detailed regulations which include the application forms on the site are pdf documents in Spanish - but fear not. Google has a reasonable translator but better is the translation service provided by Microsoft Office. To use, open the pdf document, select all text and copy and paste into a blank MSWord document. Then you can use the <translate> function in either the tools add-on in older versions or in the <Review> menu in MSWord2010.
For EU elections being on the Padron seems to automatically generate a request from the EU register in Huelva to sign up for EU elections - which will be in May next year at the same time as the municipal elections. Very similar to the UK. But don't get technical about postal voting if you want to be in the UK and vote in the Spanish consituency. The INE site seems to be issuing digital certficates which suggests that one should be able to access electoral services on line, but I cant tell if that includes actual voting.
Nov 15th 2010, 4:34 pm
#80
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Puente Esuri
Posts: 6,903
Re: How to Sign on the PADRON and become EMPADRONMIENTO
If you go to the following web site (thanks John)
https://sede.ine.gob.es/ss/Satellite...ica%2FSELayout
Note: This has a drop-down menu in the top right that allows you to select language - so lack of spanish is not an obstacle.]
It tells you the rules under which foreigners may vote in municipal elections (note this does not include national or EU elections). For non-EU citizens there is a residency duration requirement, for citizens of EU Member States there does not appear to be a duration of residency in Spain requirement (which is correct under the Treaty of Rome)
You need to be on the Register of Foreigners - that means you must have an NIE or (Spanish Foreigners ID Card)
You then need to be on the local electoral roll. This can be done on line on the same web site or upstairs at the town hall. You would need to take your proofs of identity (NIE, Passport, Escritura or Utility bill)
You do not need to be empadronameinto to register for elections.
The padron is the local census upon which the capitation for federal, regional and provincial grant aid funding is made to Ayamonte - the more names on the Padron the more funds.
Note: The detailed regulations which include the application forms on the site are pdf documents in Spanish - but fear not. Google has a reasonable translator but better is the translation service provided by Microsoft Office. To use, open the pdf document, select all text and copy and paste into a blank MSWord document. Then you can use the <translate> function in either the tools add-on in older versions or in the <Review> menu in MSWord2010.
For EU elections being on the Padron seems to automatically generate a request from the EU register in Huelva to sign up for EU elections - which will be in May next year at the same time as the municipal elections. Very similar to the UK. But don't get technical about postal voting if you want to be in the UK and vote in the Spanish consituency. The INE site seems to be issuing digital certficates which suggests that one should be able to access electoral services on line, but I cant tell if that includes actual voting.
https://sede.ine.gob.es/ss/Satellite...ica%2FSELayout
Note: This has a drop-down menu in the top right that allows you to select language - so lack of spanish is not an obstacle.]
It tells you the rules under which foreigners may vote in municipal elections (note this does not include national or EU elections). For non-EU citizens there is a residency duration requirement, for citizens of EU Member States there does not appear to be a duration of residency in Spain requirement (which is correct under the Treaty of Rome)
You need to be on the Register of Foreigners - that means you must have an NIE or (Spanish Foreigners ID Card)
You then need to be on the local electoral roll. This can be done on line on the same web site or upstairs at the town hall. You would need to take your proofs of identity (NIE, Passport, Escritura or Utility bill)
You do not need to be empadronameinto to register for elections.
The padron is the local census upon which the capitation for federal, regional and provincial grant aid funding is made to Ayamonte - the more names on the Padron the more funds.
Note: The detailed regulations which include the application forms on the site are pdf documents in Spanish - but fear not. Google has a reasonable translator but better is the translation service provided by Microsoft Office. To use, open the pdf document, select all text and copy and paste into a blank MSWord document. Then you can use the <translate> function in either the tools add-on in older versions or in the <Review> menu in MSWord2010.
For EU elections being on the Padron seems to automatically generate a request from the EU register in Huelva to sign up for EU elections - which will be in May next year at the same time as the municipal elections. Very similar to the UK. But don't get technical about postal voting if you want to be in the UK and vote in the Spanish consituency. The INE site seems to be issuing digital certficates which suggests that one should be able to access electoral services on line, but I cant tell if that includes actual voting.
However you would be an asset to the newly formed residents association have you joined yet?
Nov 15th 2010, 4:39 pm
#81
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Puente Esuri
Posts: 6,903
Re: How to Sign on the PADRON and become EMPADRONMIENTO
I remember Finca Steve posted about the trials and tribulations of getting a digital certificate I am not even going to try. Sadly Steve who used to post on here and had a column in the old Guardiana Newspaper died earlier this summer at an all to early age.
Nov 15th 2010, 5:00 pm
#82
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,675
Re: How to Sign on the PADRON and become EMPADRONMIENTO
Nov 15th 2010, 5:08 pm
#83
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Granada Costa
Posts: 10,899
Re: How to Sign on the PADRON and become EMPADRONMIENTO
Wow - this is really turning into a Hornet's nest!
Do not confuse the law with the reality of the situation!
You are obliged to be on the padron if your habitual home is in the municipality.
If you are a holiday home owner who lives outside Spain for most of the time, you are not entitled to sign on the padron.
That said, the Mayor makes up the rules as he goes along. He may be happy to have you "illegally" on the Padron but "illegally" make it difficult for you to sign on the electoral role.
My advice would be, that if you really want to vote, then take whatever steps you need to do to get on the electoral register, "legally" or otherwise and vote accordingly.
When you do finally get enfranchised and turn up at the polling station do not be surprised if your name has magically disappeared from the list - this is Spain - you just have to live with it or beat your head, continually, against the wall.
Do not confuse the law with the reality of the situation!
You are obliged to be on the padron if your habitual home is in the municipality.
If you are a holiday home owner who lives outside Spain for most of the time, you are not entitled to sign on the padron.
That said, the Mayor makes up the rules as he goes along. He may be happy to have you "illegally" on the Padron but "illegally" make it difficult for you to sign on the electoral role.
My advice would be, that if you really want to vote, then take whatever steps you need to do to get on the electoral register, "legally" or otherwise and vote accordingly.
When you do finally get enfranchised and turn up at the polling station do not be surprised if your name has magically disappeared from the list - this is Spain - you just have to live with it or beat your head, continually, against the wall.
Nov 15th 2010, 5:10 pm
#84
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Granada Costa
Posts: 10,899
Re: How to Sign on the PADRON and become EMPADRONMIENTO
I use it for a number of things, particularly as a quick way of entering the Junta website to make doctor's appointments.
Nov 15th 2010, 5:25 pm
#85
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Granada Costa
Posts: 10,899
Re: How to Sign on the PADRON and become EMPADRONMIENTO
Please confirm this is correct. When does/did it become active? What is the claiming mechanism? Can I claim retrospectively or only from 2010 onwards?
Also, what is a legitimate expense? Presumably, the costs of repair/maintenance is OK, but what about utility bills, or even mortgage repayments?
Taff
Also, what is a legitimate expense? Presumably, the costs of repair/maintenance is OK, but what about utility bills, or even mortgage repayments?
Taff
Tax residents who actually let their property have considerable benefits, especially that only 50% of the rent is taxable. They can also claim maintenance and other expenses like mortgage payments. This was introduced a few years ago to stimulate the long term rental market.
Non residents do not have these allowances.
Personally I doubt that these allowances would ever apply against the "Imputed Rental Income" that all non residents pay on their property when it is used entirely for their own use.
However, if a non resident property owner lets out his property commercially then he would be liable for the normal income tax on the rental income and it would not be unreasonable to make these allowances (perhaps this is why the suggested changes are being made). If he does this then the "Imputed Income Tax" figure is already discounted to allow for this "normal" letting on a pro-rata basis.
They are two entirely different taxes.
Also remember that if you let your Spanish property commercially and are UK tax resident, then you will also be liable for UK tax on that same income (less expenses) but will be able to deduct any Spanish income tax paid from the UK tax due. If you are a higher rate taxpayer in the UK this could still leave you with a large bill.
Nov 15th 2010, 5:44 pm
#86
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,377
Re: How to Sign on the PADRON and become EMPADRONMIENTO
If you go to the following web site (thanks John)
https://sede.ine.gob.es/ss/Satellite...ica%2FSELayout
Note: This has a drop-down menu in the top right that allows you to select language - so lack of spanish is not an obstacle.]
It tells you the rules under which foreigners may vote in municipal elections (note this does not include national or EU elections). For non-EU citizens there is a residency duration requirement, for citizens of EU Member States there does not appear to be a duration of residency in Spain requirement (which is correct under the Treaty of Rome)
You need to be on the Register of Foreigners - that means you must have an NIE or (Spanish Foreigners ID Card)
You then need to be on the local electoral roll. This can be done on line on the same web site or upstairs at the town hall. You would need to take your proofs of identity (NIE, Passport, Escritura or Utility bill)
You do not need to be empadronameinto to register for elections.
The padron is the local census upon which the capitation for federal, regional and provincial grant aid funding is made to Ayamonte - the more names on the Padron the more funds.
Note: The detailed regulations which include the application forms on the site are pdf documents in Spanish - but fear not. Google has a reasonable translator but better is the translation service provided by Microsoft Office. To use, open the pdf document, select all text and copy and paste into a blank MSWord document. Then you can use the <translate> function in either the tools add-on in older versions or in the <Review> menu in MSWord2010.
For EU elections being on the Padron seems to automatically generate a request from the EU register in Huelva to sign up for EU elections - which will be in May next year at the same time as the municipal elections. Very similar to the UK. But don't get technical about postal voting if you want to be in the UK and vote in the Spanish consituency. The INE site seems to be issuing digital certficates which suggests that one should be able to access electoral services on line, but I cant tell if that includes actual voting.
https://sede.ine.gob.es/ss/Satellite...ica%2FSELayout
Note: This has a drop-down menu in the top right that allows you to select language - so lack of spanish is not an obstacle.]
It tells you the rules under which foreigners may vote in municipal elections (note this does not include national or EU elections). For non-EU citizens there is a residency duration requirement, for citizens of EU Member States there does not appear to be a duration of residency in Spain requirement (which is correct under the Treaty of Rome)
You need to be on the Register of Foreigners - that means you must have an NIE or (Spanish Foreigners ID Card)
You then need to be on the local electoral roll. This can be done on line on the same web site or upstairs at the town hall. You would need to take your proofs of identity (NIE, Passport, Escritura or Utility bill)
You do not need to be empadronameinto to register for elections.
The padron is the local census upon which the capitation for federal, regional and provincial grant aid funding is made to Ayamonte - the more names on the Padron the more funds.
Note: The detailed regulations which include the application forms on the site are pdf documents in Spanish - but fear not. Google has a reasonable translator but better is the translation service provided by Microsoft Office. To use, open the pdf document, select all text and copy and paste into a blank MSWord document. Then you can use the <translate> function in either the tools add-on in older versions or in the <Review> menu in MSWord2010.
For EU elections being on the Padron seems to automatically generate a request from the EU register in Huelva to sign up for EU elections - which will be in May next year at the same time as the municipal elections. Very similar to the UK. But don't get technical about postal voting if you want to be in the UK and vote in the Spanish consituency. The INE site seems to be issuing digital certficates which suggests that one should be able to access electoral services on line, but I cant tell if that includes actual voting.
I too like your style of writing, and my hunch is you are either a lawyer or a political science professor!
Perhaps the newly formed RA could include such information on their website?
MikeJ, did you note the deadline for "resident EU nationals" to register online (the above INE website)? I think it until the 15th January 2011. The actual elections are to take place on the 22nd May 2011, I believe.
May I ask also, out of curiosity, how come your Padron information details were sent to Huelva?
I thought they were confidential?Carol
P.S. Note to moderator Fred James, please could a new thread start with info about the Imputed Rental Income tax for residents/non-residents made to Hacienda? I feel it is an important issue (folk may be preparing for it at this moment) and it may get lost in the title of this thread. Please could the relevant posts be included? Many thanks.
Last edited by Carol&John; Nov 15th 2010 at 6:07 pm. Reason: typo/waffle
Nov 16th 2010, 6:46 am
#87
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Granada Costa
Posts: 10,899
Re: How to Sign on the PADRON and become EMPADRONMIENTO
P.S. Note to moderator Fred James, please could a new thread start with info about the Imputed Rental Income tax for residents/non-residents made to Hacienda? I feel it is an important issue (folk may be preparing for it at this moment) and it may get lost in the title of this thread. Please could the relevant posts be included? Many thanks.
I will then repost my recent comments into that thread.
Fred
Nov 16th 2010, 7:14 am
#88
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Puente Esuri
Posts: 6,903
Nov 16th 2010, 4:14 pm
#90
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,675
Re: How to Sign on the PADRON and become EMPADRONMIENTO
I found an article which seems to clarify the issue of renewing your padron:-
Renewal: If you are not a European Union national AND do not have a permanent residence visa (autorización de residencia permanente), you will need to renew your empadronamiento every two years. In all other cases, you will not need to renew. Your community will consider you a resident until they hear otherwise. However, if you move, have a child, or if any of the information you have provided changes, you will need to update your information with the padrón.
Renewal: If you are not a European Union national AND do not have a permanent residence visa (autorización de residencia permanente), you will need to renew your empadronamiento every two years. In all other cases, you will not need to renew. Your community will consider you a resident until they hear otherwise. However, if you move, have a child, or if any of the information you have provided changes, you will need to update your information with the padrón.