House building
 

The Winter Fuel Allowance thread highlights the difficulty of heating houses throughout the winter. Is this true of all houses in Spain ie, those types built years ago. I'm talking about the picture postcard houses you see in town squares and in the rows of terraces.

Or is it mainly modern villas and apartment blocks.?

Re: House building
 

I think that it will depend on the style of the house. Our town house is a corner house so loads of windows and is difficult to heat but our neighbours house has few windows and middle terrace so much easier to heat. Generally Spanish houses are built to keep cool in the heat rather than warm in the cold and this effects heating as does the tiled or marbled floors.

Rosemary

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Thanks Rosemary, I guess there is a trade off between light and energy.

If you are having a house built from scratch how difficult would it be for cavity wall insulation etc, to be incorporated into the project. I don't believe this is commonly done on new builds

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I think, but I'm not sure, that all new builds must be insulated now.

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The old traditional Andalucian houses you see in villages like Benalmádena pueblo or Mijas or great both for keeping cool in summer and warm in winter

They have very think walls, small windows and have a very limited amount of space inside so easy to heat.

The trade off is that they are dark and small, but fine for the Andalucians of old who lived most their life in the street and fields anyway :)

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Our house is in the middle of a terrace but still gets cold. When they reformed our house before we bought it why they didn't put in some insulation on the internal walls and underside of the roof is beyond me. I could understand it if energy was cheap in Spain but it's not. Unfortunately (well fortunately really) our house is the Spanish version of listed and the facades cannot be changed so we are limited what we can do by the way of solar heating etc.
If you are having a house built in Spain ensure that it is insulated to, if possible, Uk standards. It will also help to keep the house cooler in the Summer.

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I think one of the main problems is lack of cavity walls which I believe is down to building regulations and earthquake risk.
Please correct me someone if I'm wrong on that.

The result of this is that the Winter cold strikes straight through to the inside of the walls making heating much more difficullt and expensive and often causing problems with condensation.

An even bigger problem also relating to the lack of cavity walls is the tremendous build up of heat in the whole structure in Summertime which virtually turns the whole building into a giant heat storage radiator, making it extremely difficult to cool down even at nights with the heat bouncing back out of the walls.

Once again this works out very costly with the use of power guzzling aircon systems which most ppl.find essential.

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Hi, my house is in the old part of the village and is mid terrace. when I bought it some years ago i was going to reform it, before i could part of the roof fell in and took the floors with it, so the easiest thing to do was demolish and start again which i did, Over the years the building regulations seem to have advanced a lot and my litle village house was rebuilt with cavity walls and insulation, probably not as much insulation as would be required in the UK but out of 3 different houses I have lived in in Spain this one is certainly the warmest, I dont have aircon, dont even use a fan in summer, and for winter I have a log burner and as you go up the stairs you can feel the heat from this. Every single page including drawings of the project for the rebuild has to be stamped by the College of Architects in Malaga. You also have to include the report from the geological/seismic people. I have had two winters in the house now and am very happy with it.

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Thanks for all the comments, As Dick suggested and Cerillo mentioned there seems to be a connection with seismic acivity, although I don't see what difference having cavity walls would make if an earthquake were to occur.

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I would have thought that cavity walls would collapse or move much more easily than thick solid walls.

However I'm no structural engineer and maybe there are new ways to overcome such problems ?

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I'm no structural engineer either, What you say makes sense, cavity walls don't have foundations do they?

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I have a big detached house built 27 years ago which has cavity walls with insulation between the walls. It also has proper foundations. It has massive double glazed windows on every wall. It also has oil fired central heating. My friends houses are the same. Cool in the summer and warm as toast in the winter.

I am sure there are others on here who have the same and do not live in a converted single block wall former almacen or an old stone village house colder than the Antartic and dingier than a dungeon. I cant remember when the law came in but new builds have had to be insulated (often spray pumped on) for at least 6 years or more now to my certain knowledge

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I have a typical Spanish chalet (villa) built 30 years ago. We use minimal fans in the summer to keep cool (we don't like air conditioning) and minimal heating in the winter to keep warm - one gas heater.

We are able to do this because we are near to the coast and away from the mountains. Our friends who live inland need to cater for the vast differences in temperatures between summer and winter, at considerable cost and inconvenience.

We live in an earthquake zone, but there is nothing we can do to help us if such a disaster should strike. Apart from praying.

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I would expect cavity walls to have similar foundations to solid walls given similar ground conditions.

Interesting to know that there are some houses around the Costas with cavity walls.

I imagine the build regulations must vary between different areas depending on the risk factor, with maybe the N.W. one of the lower risk areas.

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I had a new house built 8 years ago under my supervision as the developer.

The structure is earthquake proof (up to a certain level) as the whole structure is reinforced concrete with huge foundations.

The walls are all cavity walls and this has no bearing of their safely in an earthquake as they are totally non structural - they just fill the gaps between the ferro-concrete structure. They are all insulated with 4" of sprayed foam. The roof is also insulated. All the windows are double glazed. The floor is also insulated as it has underfloor heating.

Even 8 years ago this was the normal construction method and was mandatory.

The 10 year insurance policy which is also mandatory insists on geological surveys and construction to a standard that can cope with expected seismic activity and other potential problems such as landslip and flooding. It also insists on concrete and steel samples being tested at each stage of construction and supervision by a qualified structural engineer (in addition to the normal architect).

Modern Spanish houses, if constructed legally, are as good as anything in the rest of Europe, sadly it was not always that way!

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Absolutely - I think location can be a key factor in how easy it is to keep warm in winter or cool in summer. We live just under 5km inland, in Andalucia. My house (according to the escritura) was built in 1973 but has very thick exterior walls so I suspect it was actually a much older house which was almost totally rebuilt. It is a casa de dos esquinas, ie we have a street running along the front of the house and also along both sides, not joined on to any other houses except by the rear wall of the patio. We've lived here full time for 5 years and have never needed air con in summer, never use a fan downstairs, only in the bedroom on the very hottest days. As we are in quite an elevated position and have windows on all sides of the house (quite big ones for a traditional townhouse) it is very airy and light with all of them open. In the winter we do as many others do and keep the windows open all day until the sun goes down, as the outside air temperature is warmer than the inside. At sunset they are all shut, we too use only one gas heater (usually between December and March) to warm the house. Downstairs the layout is quite open plan, with an open doorway between the living room and kitchen/diner and the staircase going up from the living room, so the heat from the one heater does spread throughout the house. We've never had condensation problems from a gas heater, although many people report that they do. We also have an electric heat/light fitting in the upstairs bathroom for the chilly mornings, whilst showering!

I do wear a jumper or cardigan indoors in the winter evenings, but have never had to resort to watching TV wrapped in a blanket as some forum members say they have to do! It certainly isn't as warm as a centrally heated UK house, but when I go back to stay with relatives now, I find their houses very stuffy and feel drowsy inside.

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As Fred stated this is how my house was built also, and i was the developer, insulated cavity walls, double glazed, roof insulation etc etc floor insulated and damp proof membrane. unfortunately I couldnt afford underfloor heating. the plaster [yeso] is now sprayed on and scraped to a smooth hard finish. the seismic tests with piles dug was actually done before the old house was demolished. I am pretty good at reading plans and I watched everything being done so am happy with the build, the house was finished just over 2 years ago.

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As Lynn said, location is everything. My wife was in the swimming pool today, at 21 degrees. two months before Christmas. For weeks now we've used neither cooling or heating and have windows and doors open all day (we've got a Doberman).

We're also five miles inland and can see mountains in the distance on a clear day. It's 11pm and I'm in shorts only. It's about as good as it can get.

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I was in Spain 15 years and was never in the swimming pool after the end of September. Some years mid-september.

When we lived at sea level we found it warmer than when we moved up the hill. 5 mins drive away seemed to make a lot of difference. We had CH but the boiler was inefficient and struggled to get to 23C with a log fire too. Sometimes during January cold spells we had 2 log fires and CH. When the CH was off it only took about a half hour to return to cold even though we had double glazing.

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I lived on the CDS 21 years ago, and loved it, but couldn't afford a swimming pool at that time. I found a vast difference between Estepona and Mijas Costa where I lived, and places like Coin just a few miles inland, temperature wise. Even Casares, still Spanish in those days, was much colder than the coast, and you could almost walk to it.

But the CDS has a steep mountain range immediately behind the coast at Benalmadena, It's concreted over now, but the temperatures below are still much higher than on the other side.

I've never been in my pool in October, I'm thin skinned, pool wise, and if I say any more I'll be telling more of the truth than I should on a public forum.

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As has been said by more than one person in the past few persons, location is everything. This morning I decided last night would be the last night with just a duvet cover and sheets. Until I realised the window had been left open. Might last a few more days without the duvet. With the warm days the house has been fine though the nights need the door shut now, and I can open the shutters to let daylight in for the first time in months (OH prefers the traditional method of keeping the summer heat out, which undeniably works). But we're at 590 metres and it won't be long before the woodburner will be burning every evening, eventually kept in night and day. The house, maybe 150 years old and with walls sometimes 80+cm thick, was reformed about 10 or 12 years ago by someone wanting it for holiday use, so no thought of installing central heating or secondary double glazing or draught excluders or etc etc. And though it's very nicely done, a lack of internal doors means heat doesn't stay in the main living area.
As I drive to and from Malaga on a daily basis, I know the temperature differentials quite accurately, and discounting Saharan wind effects, etc., height seems to be the single most important factor. Even between home and the pueblo (higher than us) there can be a couple of degrees difference. Usually only in the height of summer is it possible it'll be hotter at home than at the coast. At the moment it's anything from 2 to 10 degrees warmer at the coast, but that in turn depends on the time of day! Torrequebrada will be cooler than the M-way above Arroyo de la Miel, which will be cooler than Malaga. Just behind Malaga going up towards the tunnels on the A45 will be hottest.
In the winter, there is a frost pocket (occasionally literally) around Casabermeja where it's already dipped to 12 several mornings. :eek:

As to the pool, sadly some black algae or other problem has put paid to our pool swimming this year but we were in the sea at Malaga (Banos del Carmen, right little suntrap if a bit small and noisy!!) on Wednesday. Previously unheard of for me:lol:

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Girl, where did you live? You didn't make a mistake and move to the wrong country? The polar bears might have been a clue......

Kidding aside, where were you? I know there's a considerable variation between areas, but that's a lot. Did you go much below freezing in the winter, and for how long please?

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There's variation between areas, and houses. To have inefficient CH is either bad planning or bad luck but regardless, I can easily relate to a struggle to get into the 20s degC. And depending on the house, it could easily cool very rapidly.

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The CH was installed sometime in the late 80's and we inherited it. Had some quotes to replace it a couple of years ago which were VERY expensive, especially in a falling housing market! An extention we had only had the AC/heat units. Fires in the lounge and dining room but only 1 radiator in each and the rooms were large. Was reasonably warm but cost a lot to heat and as soon as we switched it off it was cold in the night. Only had actual freezing a handful of times in all the years. I do like to be warm though. I only visited a few homes that I would say were really warm in winter unless you were sat on top of the fire and I also knew some who sat in blankets to watch TV. Have even been in houses that were damp and felt as if I had wet myself when I stood up:( House was quite high, sea facing on one side and open country and sierra de los nieves on another and it had a lot of patio/french doors to bedrooms.

As for swimming, have been in the pool at 21C but wasn't comfortable. We had heat pumps for the pool, that was crap too. Fiona you will get more than a chill at that beach, ever read about it:rofl:

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You don't need to travel very far inland or very high up to experience quite a temperature difference, mid winter especially.

Personally I would never consider an inland location more than 300 mtrs asl.if it was 20 kms or more from the coast.

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If you only had a couple of frosts, then that sounds a bit like where we are.

We have a very trad Spanish house, but it doesn't get cold very quickly, and seems to possess enough thermal mass to retain heat for quite some time.

Plus, one woodburner keeps us warm with no central heating, and at times we have to open the door to the outside, if I have left the air to the stove open for too long.

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I know we all probably talk about cold winters etc to the extent that people assume it's by way of complaint. I don't think it is, it's just the typical British tendency to talk about weather & temperature whether it's 40deg in the summer or 10 below in the winter! I guess the variants between all our houses are just too great to make any kinds of generalisation. Our house is detached, too many different wall corners etc outside to explain, about 8 separate bits of roof, five external doors, blah blah plus no internal doors between any of the main living space, which in running length from passage through room to room must run about 17 or more metres. There's a craply inefficient corner-fitted built-in woodburner in the living room which heats less than a quarter of that room on a good day. Very attractive, very high, ceiling. Warmer up there! We can't get a single room what any 'typical' Brit would consider 'warm' through possibly November-March, depending, without many hours of heating and judicious use of the many floor length curtains. Not complaining, you understand, just attempting to explain how it can be that an old, thick-walled, Spanish property can be cold in winter despite or perhaps because of the heat sink/cold sink properties of those very walls!
All (old) houses are different.......

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and don't we know it in Granada, with being 80k inland and 750m asl, with a 3,500m mountain in the way of the rising sun.
we are already experiencing large temperature swings day vs night

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Can you repost this in the DWP site forum in the winter fuel allowence thread. :thumbup:

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I think I may have identified your problem. It's highlighted in red.

If you have (sorry) a shit woodburner, then how are you going to get warm. In comparison with what I could get in the UK, our woodburner is second rate, but it's the best I could get here, and because I have it free standing, it will turn the room into an oven on the coldest day. Put simply, for the vast majority of the day, the fire is on low, except in the evening when it's on medium or low. If I ran that at full tilt, I simply couldn't bear to be in the room. In addition, I long ago realised that burning it thru the night was just a waste of fuel. We burn it almost out at night, and it isn't relit till the sun goes down.

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Well I don't want to bore everyone else with the technicalities of our house, but suffice it to say that's just one problem, and one which only a corner-fitted freestanding woodburner would be in any position to solve!

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Mine is a corner fitting. The strength of a stove is in its seals. I'm always saying that if you burn a wood fire without getting very warm, very quickly, you are doing it wrong. Damp fuel, not using the stove properly.

It is a genuine puzzle to me. Lay the fire upside down, light it at the top, and manage the air. In all my life I have never seen an unsatisfactory fire.

Is yours free standing?

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Nope. Cassette, fan long since died (plastic switch:eek::eek:), concrete/block mantel and surround for the flue. Basically the only place for direct heat is through the glass front, and then the mantel and 'chimneybreast' are night store heaters. It has only one control (from memory, computer's upstairs and I can't be ********d to go down and look:o). Running a fire isn't the issue. I'm a pyromaniac by nature, ask my kids! It's distribution of the heat. Loads of heat when it's blazing but enclosed by glass and blockwork.
I had a hunter in the UK, with back boiler; loved it. and then, different house, a Hunter in one room, Franco-Belge in the other. Swore the Franco-Belge was the best EVER. Freestanding of course. Bloody brilliant.

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Best ones are German, no question about it. Clearview and woodwarm in the uK.

This post is why I always say to people not to touch casettes. They are a bloody silly design.

Hunters are badly designed for cleaning. I used to hate having to clean them.

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Fiona, if you are heating the ceiling then may I suggest you need a fan on slow to stir it all up, get some air movement other than upwards and see if you start to get some warmth.

the English system of thick walls used to be cool in summer warm in winter, but if the air is in the wrong place you will get no benefit.

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You can put a tube in the corner of the room, and put a tube fan in that to pull the warm air down, and blow it across the floor.

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Yes, I spent some time around that way quite a few years back and even in the middle of July during a really hot summer there was still snow on the tops of the Sierras.

I am a bit less than 20 km from the coast as the crow flies and about 260 mtrs up, so its not so different from the coast just a tad cooler in mid winter, but once I go just a little further inland and slightly higher then the difference is very noticable and I can often see snow on the hills looking from here to the N.W.of Valencia, until mid April.

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The national Building Regs introduced in September 2006 require wall and roof insulation and solar water heating for all new builds. Insulation keeps heat out in summer and warmth in in winter. However very large windows do not perform well in either winter or summer even if they are double glazed.