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Historic moment: EU Referendum

Historic moment: EU Referendum

Old Sep 17th 2016, 4:02 am
  #196  
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Daveinspain
The only problem with that is it makes paying back the £4.8 trillion (and rising) national debt a tad more difficult.
The United Kingdom National Debt Clock 2016 Counter >> nationaldebtclock.co.uk
Extract below from your link.

UK National Debt Surpassed £1 Trillion

Mainstream media headlines today are focused on Britain's record national debt, which just surpassed £1 trillion, a figure that can only exponentially increase unless the entire mechanism of Government finance is overhauled. The truth however is much worse, factoring in all liabilities including state and public sector pensions, the real national debt is closer to £4.8 trillion, some £78,000 for every person in the UK.


That's where the real problem lies for the UK in the not to distant future, unsustainable, unfunded pensions costs.
All governments are scared to deal with what is a financial disaster waiting to happen and nothing to do whether we are in or out of the EU.
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Old Sep 17th 2016, 7:08 am
  #197  
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by johnnyone
Extract below from your link.

UK National Debt Surpassed £1 Trillion

Mainstream media headlines today are focused on Britain's record national debt, which just surpassed £1 trillion, a figure that can only exponentially increase unless the entire mechanism of Government finance is overhauled. The truth however is much worse, factoring in all liabilities including state and public sector pensions, the real national debt is closer to £4.8 trillion, some £78,000 for every person in the UK.


That's where the real problem lies for the UK in the not to distant future, unsustainable, unfunded pensions costs.
All governments are scared to deal with what is a financial disaster waiting to happen and nothing to do whether we are in or out of the EU.
Seem to remember that during the referendum campaign,we were told that outside the EU the future would be rosy,don't forget we have the worlds 6th largest economy......
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Old Sep 17th 2016, 5:56 pm
  #198  
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Daveinspain
Seem to remember that during the referendum campaign,we were told that outside the EU the future would be rosy,don't forget we have the worlds 6th largest economy......
I hope you didn't fully believe either side.As I mentioned, I was upset by BOTH sides scare-mongering, but on balance, IMO, the Remain were the worst.

The national debt is awful.

I'm not sure where the EU debate comes in here as we are still in the EU and the debt has increased during our membership. But can we blame them for all that? Even as a pro-Brexit person, I don't want to blame them for everything! However the huge net EU cost for us as the 2nd largest payer, (according to the beeb Saturday) didnt help the debt!

I remember a few years back, the ex rate was far 'worse' at around 1.03. The booze runs to Calais stopped. The marketing strategy of e.g Champagne + Cognac, kept the Sterling price fixed. I actually bought a bunch of Champers and Cognac to take BACK to France! (I live in the Eurozone, so bought with my Euros). Ex rates have fluctuated quite significantly during our membership and would've continued to do so had we remained. With the UK committed to Sterling vs Euro (THANKFULLY) fluctuating rates are a given. In or out. In my personal experience we bought in Spain when it was 1.45 .... and I've used a 1.03 rate for booze! So a relatively huge variation over a historically short period - all during EU membership.. And as we've seen in the last few posts, theres 2 sides to the coin. Low rates, better for exports....vs... Affecting the debt.

The history of the single currency was an example of a mess-up and was one of the reasons why I don't trust the EU elite. Even Nick Clegg a committed Remain person, AND someone who wanted us in the Euro, said on the Andrew Marr show, that the EU and eg Greece (and other countries) ... quote.... 'fiddled' the system and rules to get it in. AND he and all those 'expert' economists had the wool pulled over their eyes! AND told us of doom-and-gloom if we rejected the Euro! How can we trust these elites who are quite prepared to break THEIR OWN rules, when it suits them!?. There are examples, too many to go into here, where eg the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties were simply ignored. Also when France + Holland rejected the constitution referenda, the much-used 'back door' opened again!

Also don't forget, lower rates post referendum = lower interest payments. The Labour government want to increase borrowing due to these historically low rates. They were, apparently, Remain. They have seen the ex-rate change and interest change, post-Brexit, but on balance feel its a good time to borrow more. Whether you are pro-Labour or not, this is quite telling to me.

Putting it all together, I still feel we haven't had the 'immediate shock' the Remain campaign scared us with. I still feel we have stormy weather coming post-Article 50.

But very glad we voted out on 23/6 and will in about 2-3 years take more control of our historic democracy.

Jon

Last edited by Jon-Bxl; Sep 17th 2016 at 6:52 pm.
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Old Sep 17th 2016, 7:12 pm
  #199  
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

To put part of Jon's post into context, in the 40 years since I left the UK I have experienced the following exchange rates expressed as € to the £ although they were originally in pesetas and escudos

Spain a low of 0.67€ to the £ and a high of 1.67€ to the pound

Portugal a low of 0.27€ to the £
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 7:03 am
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

Well, the lies of the leave camp have been fully debunked, but because there has been no brexit yet, it's pretty difficult to debunk the remain assertions. In fact, most are likely to be realised. The extreme stuff, like WWIII comments are unlikely, yet in the very worst scenario, are actually possible.

In the end, the irony is that as a matter of pure fact, there is no upside for anyone from brexit. Everybody loses.

But Britain can never realise it isn't a world power anymore, and it can no longer be the boss of everything. And for that reason, it shouldn't be part of the European project. It will never embrace it, and will only hinder its progress.

So, although it's premature, and Britain could have exited with a lot more in its favour, brexit is actually a good thing for Europe. Despite the obvious downsides.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 7:53 am
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by amideislas
Well, the lies of the leave camp have been fully debunked, but because there has been no brexit yet, it's pretty difficult to debunk the remain assertions. In fact, most are likely to be realised. The extreme stuff, like WWIII comments are unlikely, yet in the very worst scenario, are actually possible.

In the end, the irony is that as a matter of pure fact, there is no upside for anyone from brexit. Everybody loses.

But Britain can never realise it isn't a world power anymore, and it can no longer be the boss of everything. And for that reason, it shouldn't be part of the European project. It will never embrace it, and will only hinder its progress.

So, although it's premature, and Britain could have exited with a lot more in its favour, brexit is actually a good thing for Europe. Despite the obvious downsides.
Today I was speaking to my brother-in -law he voted remain.

However now he feels cheated even though brexit is yet to happen

Armageddon that vote remain forecast has not happened
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 8:15 am
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Fredbargate
Today I was speaking to my brother-in -law he voted remain.

However now he feels cheated even though brexit is yet to happen

Armageddon that vote remain forecast has not happened
Well, I'm sure your brother in law knows. Despite nobody else knowing.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 9:04 am
  #203  
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by amideislas
Well, the lies of the leave camp have been fully debunked, but because there has been no brexit yet, it's pretty difficult to debunk the remain assertions. In fact, most are likely to be realised. The extreme stuff, like WWIII comments are unlikely, yet in the very worst scenario, are actually possible.

In the end, the irony is that as a matter of pure fact, there is no upside for anyone from brexit. Everybody loses.

But Britain can never realise it isn't a world power anymore, and it can no longer be the boss of everything. And for that reason, it shouldn't be part of the European project. It will never embrace it, and will only hinder its progress.

So, although it's premature, and Britain could have exited with a lot more in its favour, brexit is actually a good thing for Europe. Despite the obvious downsides.

The so called Eu project or German superstate is in crisis as stated by its leaders, it is on the rocks, falling apart,bankrupt of funds and bankrupt of ideas or any way to recover.

The meeting a couple of days back which ended in total disagreement by member nations further confirmed that.

It is already breaking up into various factions, none of whom are prepared to be intimidated or bullied any more by its Dictatorial regime.

Who in their right mind wants to be associated with such corrupt shambles of an organisation ?

It has poured zillions into a bottomless black hole to try and maintain its intended infrastructure and failed miserably.

The amount of contributions required over the next few years for it to survive even a short time longer, don't even bear thinking about.

The sooner we have wiped our hands of the whole sad rotten to the core mess, the better, imho.

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Old Sep 19th 2016, 5:31 am
  #204  
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly
The so called Eu project or German superstate is in crisis as stated by its leaders, it is on the rocks, falling apart,bankrupt of funds and bankrupt of ideas or any way to recover.

The meeting a couple of days back which ended in total disagreement by member nations further confirmed that.

It is already breaking up into various factions, none of whom are prepared to be intimidated or bullied any more by its Dictatorial regime.

Who in their right mind wants to be associated with such corrupt shambles of an organisation ?

It has poured zillions into a bottomless black hole to try and maintain its intended infrastructure and failed miserably.

The amount of contributions required over the next few years for it to survive even a short time longer, don't even bear thinking about.

The sooner we have wiped our hands of the whole sad rotten to the core mess, the better, imho.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE
classic Monty Python sketch, may well apply to the dead parrot EU.
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Old Oct 8th 2016, 2:11 am
  #205  
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

This made me smile.... lets give 'drunkard' a drubbing!

Brexit: British expats sue EU's Juncker over talks - BBC News

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