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Historic moment: EU Referendum

Historic moment: EU Referendum

Old Jul 28th 2016, 8:57 am
  #136  
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
That's great, and will help (if anything actually happens which tangibly benefits the UK). It will be up to a decade before anyone will really know.
Spot on we must just wait and see people are speculating many things but let's face it at the moment nothing has changed other than the referendum result and consequential reduction in sterling strength, we are currently still trading as an EU Member State. Time will tell good or bad.
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Old Jul 28th 2016, 9:11 am
  #137  
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl View Post
Its only been a month!!!

But here's one, with diageo already, take a look at the headlines

https://www.google.be/search?q=gsk+b...C4yFgAa6opSgAg

Jon
Take a look at my previous post and you will see why Diageo is putting everything into the uk.
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Old Jul 29th 2016, 12:13 am
  #138  
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by billgates View Post
In the recent referendum, some of us voted for the UK and British people as a whole rather than only our own personal self-interests.

I'm resident in Spain and have been for many years. The Brexit result may affect me personally, then again it may not.
I believe the EU is a corrupt and anti-democratic club that bullies and threatens its members into submission using economic threats such as shutting down a country's banking system. How can anyone in their right mind believe that what was done to Greece was just and fair?

The fact that my access to health care may change or my pension may go down or mobile phone calls might be more expensive or my next foreign holiday might cost a bit more are irrelevent. Some of us voted leave for reasons above and beyond these petty arguments.

Just because we are expats and immigrants into another country, we don't stop being British.
Well said!
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Old Jul 29th 2016, 5:02 pm
  #139  
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by billgates View Post
I believe the EU is a corrupt and anti-democratic club that bullies and threatens its members into submission using economic threats such as shutting down a country's banking system.
You're giving the EU far too much credit.

Originally Posted by billgates View Post
How can anyone in their right mind believe that what was done to Greece was just and fair?
I don't think it was "fair" at all. But then, without a true fiscal and political union, aside from saying "it's OK, your debts are forgiven, now run along and continue being completely corrupt and fiscally irresponsible, and we'll bail you out again next time", there's not a lot more that could be done.

I reckon you could equally ask "How can anyone in their right mind believe that what Greece did to the EU was just and fair?".

Having said that, I do believe much more realistic terms should have been negotiated. Nobody wins as long as Greece is bankrupt. No, it's not fair.

Originally Posted by billgates View Post
The fact that my access to health care may change or my pension may go down or mobile phone calls might be more expensive or my next foreign holiday might cost a bit more are irrelevent. Some of us voted leave for reasons above and beyond these petty arguments.

Just because we are expats and immigrants into another country, we don't stop being British.
Most people voted to leave in a misguided belief it would rid the country of foreigners. That was demonstrably the predominant theme of the leave campaign, and without it, there's little doubt the vote would have gone the other way.

But OK, Britain voted to leave, and IMO, it now MUST (and doesn't belong anyway), even if little or none of what the majority voted for can ever be realised (as most of it was self-inflicted and had nothing to do with the EU in the first place).

On the bright side, in the long term, Europe will be free of Britain's anti-European fears and dissenting voices against anything which could lead to its success and potentially marginalise Britain in the process. Europe has astronomical potential (already world's largest economy), is far from fully realising it, has a lot of things to fix, and doesn't need more barriers to doing that. Especially petty barriers that serve nobody in any positive way.
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Old Jul 29th 2016, 11:46 pm
  #140  
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

Same old, same old nonsense, Ami.

Most folk voted to leave first and foremost because they believed in Democracy and Sovereignty rather than having to submit to a virtual Dictatorship and govt by a rotten to the core organisation controlled by a handful of unelected crooks and idiots, who make one disastrous decision after another.

The next decision to leave was in order to have some control over immigration rather than risk the catastrophic self inflicted situation France and Germany now find themselves in.

The third most important decision to leave, was because the UK no longer had any influence on EU policies, which are clearly intended to benefit Eurozone countries, but have ended up benefiting very few, apart from the Fat Cats of Brussels.
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Old Jul 30th 2016, 8:41 am
  #141  
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly View Post
Same old, same old nonsense, Ami.

Most folk voted to leave first and foremost because they believed in Democracy and Sovereignty rather than having to submit to a virtual Dictatorship and govt by a rotten to the core organisation controlled by a handful of unelected crooks and idiots, who make one disastrous decision after another.

The next decision to leave was in order to have some control over immigration rather than risk the catastrophic self inflicted situation France and Germany now find themselves in.

The third most important decision to leave, was because the UK no longer had any influence on EU policies, which are clearly intended to benefit Eurozone countries, but have ended up benefiting very few, apart from the Fat Cats of Brussels.
Rubbish,

You ask most people why they wanted to leave and they will all say Immigration.
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Old Jul 30th 2016, 11:02 am
  #142  
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by newpower View Post
Rubbish,

You ask most people why they wanted to leave and they will all say Immigration.
According to a poll that was conducted shortly after the referendum, the reasons given were as I stated and in that precise order, which incidentally also coincides with what feedback I have picked up myself.

The immigration issue always referred to the urgent need for control, rather than prevention, a fact which Germany and others are now learning to their cost.
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Old Jul 30th 2016, 11:35 am
  #143  
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

I think the biggest issue in the majority of out voters was immigration followed very closely by alleged cost v benefits of membership. Two of the largest part of the whole out campaign. Let's face it immigration very much depends upon what area of the UK one actually lives. Immediately following the vote I also noticed certainly on the social media sites I use many out voters trying to distance themselves from the race issue. However many pre referendum and within fairly quick time since have mindlessly copied and pasted or shared Britain First Bile. I am only half and half in Spain and that is certainly the vibes I picked up both leading into the referendum and since. Trouble was a fairly large proportion seemed to be unable to differentiate between immigrants from the EU and those from outwith the EU. But as they say all history now the vote for whatever reason was for out, I don't really think any of us can know why someone votes the way they do other than ourselves in reality.
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Old Jul 30th 2016, 1:10 pm
  #144  
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly View Post
Same old, same old nonsense, Ami.

Most folk voted to leave first and foremost because they believed in Democracy and Sovereignty rather than having to submit to a virtual Dictatorship and govt by a rotten to the core organisation controlled by a handful of unelected crooks and idiots, who make one disastrous decision after another.

The next decision to leave was in order to have some control over immigration rather than risk the catastrophic self inflicted situation France and Germany now find themselves in.

The third most important decision to leave, was because the UK no longer had any influence on EU policies, which are clearly intended to benefit Eurozone countries, but have ended up benefiting very few, apart from the Fat Cats of Brussels.
Absolutely bang on target.
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Old Jul 30th 2016, 1:11 pm
  #145  
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by newpower View Post
Rubbish,

You ask most people why they wanted to leave and they will all say Immigration.
I think you're mistaken - I voted and my reasons are as suggested by @Dick


Perhaps it all depends on who you ask and how!
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Old Jul 30th 2016, 1:40 pm
  #146  
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly View Post
According to a poll that was conducted shortly after the referendum, the reasons given were as I stated and in that precise order, which incidentally also coincides with what feedback I have picked up myself.

The immigration issue always referred to the urgent need for control, rather than prevention, a fact which Germany and others are now learning to their cost.
I would point out most polls predicted a remain win so their reliability is somewhat suspect.
All the people that I spoke to, family, friends, pub mates etc. that voted to leave said without fail it was because of immigration.
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Old Jul 30th 2016, 3:01 pm
  #147  
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

Yes but you seem to be missing the point - as it would seem do most of the gutter press. I suspect very few of the thinking class have a problem with immigration provided it is controlled and that we accept the people that we want in the UK rather than those that are imposed on us by the European Court of Justice or those that hold an EU Passport despite being undesirables. Societies cannot plan for the future without a degree of certainty of the numbers involved. Uncontrolled immigration which could double at a whim causes major issues with resources if it has not been foreseen.
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Old Jul 30th 2016, 4:38 pm
  #148  
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

The point is the "non" thinking class (that you obviously believe exists) voted without giving full consideration to the facts and believed that a out vote would solve the immigration problem (if there is one) at a stroke, when nothing could be further from the truth.
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Old Jul 30th 2016, 6:15 pm
  #149  
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

Here is an undeniable truth:

Without immigration at the forefront, the vote would have gone to remain. Full stop. You can't argue against that.

Dismissing the "sovereignty" rhetoric, while focusing on immigration, it likely would have still resulted in a leave vote. By the way, there is not and never was any imminent crisis of democracy or sovereignty, so that argument is equally a false premise.

Stopping immigration, particularly the Muslim type, was forefront to the vote. If you want me to again reprint the rhetoric, I will. But that's been wayyy overdone now.

Last edited by amideislas; Jul 30th 2016 at 6:18 pm.
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Old Jul 30th 2016, 10:00 pm
  #150  
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Default Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly View Post
According to a poll that was conducted shortly after the referendum, the reasons given were as I stated and in that precise order, which incidentally also coincides with what feedback I have picked up myself.

The immigration issue always referred to the urgent need for control, rather than prevention, a fact which Germany and others are now learning to their cost.
According to polls?, do you speak to people? Obviously you just read what is put in front of you.
In the workplace all you hear is immigration, that was the message and that is what most were voting on.
Now the truth is coming out and people are starting to see what is in store, the workplace is realising they made a mistake.
But you wont find that in your poll.
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