Historic moment: EU Referendum
Jun 29th 2016, 6:57 pm
#61
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,614
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
I have to say I am a bit confused by some of the comments I read here. Regardless of whether someone is in favour of the UK leaving or staying, some comments read as if they were talking about someone else rather than themselves.
When I read for example, " till we leave", I ask myself if this is a person living in the UK or a British immigrant living in Spain? Given this is a forum for British immigrants living outside the UK (and this sub-forum for those in Spain), I would expect to read comments based on the view of an Ex-UK resident who is now a Spanish Resident. I would not expect to read a 'till WE leave'. You are living in Spain. As a Spanish resident you aren't part of the Brexit at all. Or do you now plan to return to the UK?
My wife and I live in Canada. I arrived from the UK as a child. My wife arrived as an Immigrant from the UK, 10 years ago. We are both Canadian. While the Brexit referendum is of great interest to us for various reasons including being our place of birth, we do not talk about is as 'we will leave or remain'. We talk about it as 'they will leave or remain.'
We also talk about it in terms of its significance to us personally. We could have moved to Spain to live until last Friday without a problem based on our dual nationality. As of Friday, that option no longer exists.
But while we are very much concerned for the people of the UK as well as those of the other EU countries and what this will mean to them all and also concerned for how it impacts us personally, we do not think in terms of 'we leave' at all. I find that very strange indeed.
If you want to use 'till we leave', then you need to move back to the UK and take part in the leaving. Otherwise, I would see it as pretty two-faced for a Spanish resident to continue living in Spain which is in the EU and encouraging Brits to leave the EU at the same time. That's like supporting the OTHER team, not your home team.
When I read for example, " till we leave", I ask myself if this is a person living in the UK or a British immigrant living in Spain? Given this is a forum for British immigrants living outside the UK (and this sub-forum for those in Spain), I would expect to read comments based on the view of an Ex-UK resident who is now a Spanish Resident. I would not expect to read a 'till WE leave'. You are living in Spain. As a Spanish resident you aren't part of the Brexit at all. Or do you now plan to return to the UK?
My wife and I live in Canada. I arrived from the UK as a child. My wife arrived as an Immigrant from the UK, 10 years ago. We are both Canadian. While the Brexit referendum is of great interest to us for various reasons including being our place of birth, we do not talk about is as 'we will leave or remain'. We talk about it as 'they will leave or remain.'
We also talk about it in terms of its significance to us personally. We could have moved to Spain to live until last Friday without a problem based on our dual nationality. As of Friday, that option no longer exists.
But while we are very much concerned for the people of the UK as well as those of the other EU countries and what this will mean to them all and also concerned for how it impacts us personally, we do not think in terms of 'we leave' at all. I find that very strange indeed.
If you want to use 'till we leave', then you need to move back to the UK and take part in the leaving. Otherwise, I would see it as pretty two-faced for a Spanish resident to continue living in Spain which is in the EU and encouraging Brits to leave the EU at the same time. That's like supporting the OTHER team, not your home team.
Jun 29th 2016, 7:11 pm
#62
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Jun 29th 2016, 8:57 pm
#64
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Joined: Dec 2012
Location: Surrey and Marina Alta
Posts: 454
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
I went to a function at the weekend, 10 blokes in total with me being the only one to vote remain, all think we will be able to access the EU market without free movement of people, how did they work that out?, leave told them so, 2 of them voted leave for the extra money the NHS was going to get, its clear to me a lot of people in the UK think they can have the cake and eat it,
We will see
Jun 29th 2016, 9:21 pm
#65
Banned
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 13
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
Surely a British citizen still holds an interest in the uk? They may be Spanish Resident but not Spanish citizens many may well still be British tax payers are you saying they should have no interest in how that money is spent? From what you say you and your wife have taken Canadian citizenship that is of course different.Most will also be reliant on uk paying their health cover in Spain / EU one worry they will have is what will happen re that?
My wife and I also have income derived in the UK bobd22 and so there is nothing unique in that regard either. The one thing that is unique is that up until now, those in Spain have got healthcare paid for by the UK which we do not get here in Canada. Of course it isn't really free in the UK either, it's paid for with your taxes but that is another story. I do have to say though that I always laugh when people talk about 'free' healthcare.
As for those staying in Spain and currently being reliant on the UK paying their healthcare in Spain, well the answer to that is obvious I would have thought. Become Spanish if you want to stay and do what the Spanish do. It is certainly not going to be paid by the UK once the exit date arrives. Anyone who thinks it will is beyond naïve.
Another factor is pension indexing. You may or may not be aware that UK State Pensions are not indexed linked for pensioners in every country they choose to retire to. Australia and Canada being prime examples. So where those receiving UK State Pensions in the UK as well as some other countries including the EU countries enjoy a 2.5% (currently) increase in their pension every year, those being paid elsewhere have their pension frozen at the amount it was for the first month they receive it. That may well happen to those retired in Spain etc. as the tax agreement that covers it is with the EEA, not the individual countries. Oops.
I don't intend to be rude or anything bobd22, but somehow there is something fundamentally wrong when someone living in Spain refers to 'till we leave' when in fact that person chose to leave some time ago. It's like trying to say, 'I'm in Spain (or wherever else) but I'm not really here. I'm still in the UK.'
Jun 29th 2016, 9:33 pm
#66
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,614
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
Of course British citizens including my wife and I still have an interest in the UK. But if we have chosen to take up residence elsewhere, whether also taking up citizenship or not, we are not entitled to say 'till we leave'. WE are not living there anymore. I see no difference between a Brit immigrant in Spain and one in any other country.
My wife and I also have income derived in the UK bobd22 and so there is nothing unique in that regard either. The one thing that is unique is that up until now, those in Spain have got healthcare paid for by the UK which we do not get here in Canada. Of course it isn't really free in the UK either, it's paid for with your taxes but that is another story. I do have to say though that I always laugh when people talk about 'free' healthcare.
As for those staying in Spain and currently being reliant on the UK paying their healthcare in Spain, well the answer to that is obvious I would have thought. Become Spanish if you want to stay and do what the Spanish do. It is certainly not going to be paid by the UK once the exit date arrives. Anyone who thinks it will is beyond naïve.
Another factor is pension indexing. You may or may not be aware that UK State Pensions are not indexed linked for pensioners in every country they choose to retire to. Australia and Canada being prime examples. So where those receiving UK State Pensions in the UK as well as some other countries including the EU countries enjoy a 2.5% (currently) increase in their pension every year, those being paid elsewhere have their pension frozen at the amount it was for the first month they receive it. That may well happen to those retired in Spain etc. as the tax agreement that covers it is with the EEA, not the individual countries. Oops.
I don't intend to be rude or anything bobd22, but somehow there is something fundamentally wrong when someone living in Spain refers to 'till we leave' when in fact that person chose to leave some time ago. It's like trying to say, 'I'm in Spain (or wherever else) but I'm not really here. I'm still in the UK.'
My wife and I also have income derived in the UK bobd22 and so there is nothing unique in that regard either. The one thing that is unique is that up until now, those in Spain have got healthcare paid for by the UK which we do not get here in Canada. Of course it isn't really free in the UK either, it's paid for with your taxes but that is another story. I do have to say though that I always laugh when people talk about 'free' healthcare.
As for those staying in Spain and currently being reliant on the UK paying their healthcare in Spain, well the answer to that is obvious I would have thought. Become Spanish if you want to stay and do what the Spanish do. It is certainly not going to be paid by the UK once the exit date arrives. Anyone who thinks it will is beyond naïve.
Another factor is pension indexing. You may or may not be aware that UK State Pensions are not indexed linked for pensioners in every country they choose to retire to. Australia and Canada being prime examples. So where those receiving UK State Pensions in the UK as well as some other countries including the EU countries enjoy a 2.5% (currently) increase in their pension every year, those being paid elsewhere have their pension frozen at the amount it was for the first month they receive it. That may well happen to those retired in Spain etc. as the tax agreement that covers it is with the EEA, not the individual countries. Oops.
I don't intend to be rude or anything bobd22, but somehow there is something fundamentally wrong when someone living in Spain refers to 'till we leave' when in fact that person chose to leave some time ago. It's like trying to say, 'I'm in Spain (or wherever else) but I'm not really here. I'm still in the UK.'
Last edited by bobd22; Jun 29th 2016 at 9:35 pm.
Jun 30th 2016, 7:26 am
#67
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 827
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
I have to say I am a bit confused by some of the comments I read here. Regardless of whether someone is in favour of the UK leaving or staying, some comments read as if they were talking about someone else rather than themselves.
When I read for example, " till we leave", I ask myself if this is a person living in the UK or a British immigrant living in Spain? Given this is a forum for British immigrants living outside the UK (and this sub-forum for those in Spain), I would expect to read comments based on the view of an Ex-UK resident who is now a Spanish Resident. I would not expect to read a 'till WE leave'. You are living in Spain. As a Spanish resident you aren't part of the Brexit at all. Or do you now plan to return to the UK?
My wife and I live in Canada. I arrived from the UK as a child. My wife arrived as an Immigrant from the UK, 10 years ago. We are both Canadian. While the Brexit referendum is of great interest to us for various reasons including being our place of birth, we do not talk about is as 'we will leave or remain'. We talk about it as 'they will leave or remain.'
We also talk about it in terms of its significance to us personally. We could have moved to Spain to live until last Friday without a problem based on our dual nationality. As of Friday, that option no longer exists.
But while we are very much concerned for the people of the UK as well as those of the other EU countries and what this will mean to them all and also concerned for how it impacts us personally, we do not think in terms of 'we leave' at all. I find that very strange indeed.
If you want to use 'till we leave', then you need to move back to the UK and take part in the leaving. Otherwise, I would see it as pretty two-faced for a Spanish resident to continue living in Spain which is in the EU and encouraging Brits to leave the EU at the same time. That's like supporting the OTHER team, not your home team.
When I read for example, " till we leave", I ask myself if this is a person living in the UK or a British immigrant living in Spain? Given this is a forum for British immigrants living outside the UK (and this sub-forum for those in Spain), I would expect to read comments based on the view of an Ex-UK resident who is now a Spanish Resident. I would not expect to read a 'till WE leave'. You are living in Spain. As a Spanish resident you aren't part of the Brexit at all. Or do you now plan to return to the UK?
My wife and I live in Canada. I arrived from the UK as a child. My wife arrived as an Immigrant from the UK, 10 years ago. We are both Canadian. While the Brexit referendum is of great interest to us for various reasons including being our place of birth, we do not talk about is as 'we will leave or remain'. We talk about it as 'they will leave or remain.'
We also talk about it in terms of its significance to us personally. We could have moved to Spain to live until last Friday without a problem based on our dual nationality. As of Friday, that option no longer exists.
But while we are very much concerned for the people of the UK as well as those of the other EU countries and what this will mean to them all and also concerned for how it impacts us personally, we do not think in terms of 'we leave' at all. I find that very strange indeed.
If you want to use 'till we leave', then you need to move back to the UK and take part in the leaving. Otherwise, I would see it as pretty two-faced for a Spanish resident to continue living in Spain which is in the EU and encouraging Brits to leave the EU at the same time. That's like supporting the OTHER team, not your home team.
I'm resident in Spain and have been for many years. The Brexit result may affect me personally, then again it may not.
I believe the EU is a corrupt and anti-democratic club that bullies and threatens its members into submission using economic threats such as shutting down a country's banking system. How can anyone in their right mind believe that what was done to Greece was just and fair?
The fact that my access to health care may change or my pension may go down or mobile phone calls might be more expensive or my next foreign holiday might cost a bit more are irrelevent. Some of us voted leave for reasons above and beyond these petty arguments.
Just because we are expats and immigrants into another country, we don't stop being British.
Jun 30th 2016, 9:38 am
#68
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: On Top of the World
Posts: 17,507
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
In the recent referendum, some of us voted for the UK and British people as a whole rather than only our own personal self-interests.
I'm resident in Spain and have been for many years. The Brexit result may affect me personally, then again it may not.
I believe the EU is a corrupt and anti-democratic club that bullies and threatens its members into submission using economic threats such as shutting down a country's banking system. How can anyone in their right mind believe that what was done to Greece was just and fair?
The fact that my access to health care may change or my pension may go down or mobile phone calls might be more expensive or my next foreign holiday might cost a bit more are irrelevent. Some of us voted leave for reasons above and beyond these petty arguments.
Just because we are expats and immigrants into another country, we don't stop being British.
I'm resident in Spain and have been for many years. The Brexit result may affect me personally, then again it may not.
I believe the EU is a corrupt and anti-democratic club that bullies and threatens its members into submission using economic threats such as shutting down a country's banking system. How can anyone in their right mind believe that what was done to Greece was just and fair?
The fact that my access to health care may change or my pension may go down or mobile phone calls might be more expensive or my next foreign holiday might cost a bit more are irrelevent. Some of us voted leave for reasons above and beyond these petty arguments.
Just because we are expats and immigrants into another country, we don't stop being British.
My views and way of thinking exactly.
The whole remain campaign was based around greed.
Cameron and co presumed everyone had the same money obsessed mindset as themselves to the exclusion of all else.
In any event, in the long term, I think the UK will come out of it better than the EU.
Jun 30th 2016, 11:58 am
#69
BE Positive
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,980
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
In the recent referendum, some of us voted for the UK and British people as a whole rather than only our own personal self-interests.
I'm resident in Spain and have been for many years. The Brexit result may affect me personally, then again it may not.
I believe the EU is a corrupt and anti-democratic club that bullies and threatens its members into submission using economic threats such as shutting down a country's banking system. How can anyone in their right mind believe that what was done to Greece was just and fair?
The fact that my access to health care may change or my pension may go down or mobile phone calls might be more expensive or my next foreign holiday might cost a bit more are irrelevent. Some of us voted leave for reasons above and beyond these petty arguments.
Just because we are expats and immigrants into another country, we don't stop being British.
I'm resident in Spain and have been for many years. The Brexit result may affect me personally, then again it may not.
I believe the EU is a corrupt and anti-democratic club that bullies and threatens its members into submission using economic threats such as shutting down a country's banking system. How can anyone in their right mind believe that what was done to Greece was just and fair?
The fact that my access to health care may change or my pension may go down or mobile phone calls might be more expensive or my next foreign holiday might cost a bit more are irrelevent. Some of us voted leave for reasons above and beyond these petty arguments.
Just because we are expats and immigrants into another country, we don't stop being British.
I dont understand his 3 little words 'till we leave' have such import.
I am an expat living outside of the UK and expect a lot of turbulence 'till WE (Britain) leave (the EU)'
You can take the boy out of Britain, but not Britain out of the boy!!
Jon
BTW I am pretty sure that I will lose out financially, my pension etc, as well, but for me the country comes first, and though 48% don't agree with me I think the country will be better off, eventually.
Last edited by Jon-Bxl; Jun 30th 2016 at 12:10 pm.
Jun 30th 2016, 12:15 pm
#70
BE Positive
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,980
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
Gosh Bojo is out! What a week!!!!!
Jun 30th 2016, 12:49 pm
#71
On the road again.
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Location: On Top of the World
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Jun 30th 2016, 1:36 pm
#72
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 19,367
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
- No more foreigners
- More free healthcare
- Higher wages
- Loads of jobs and prosperity
I think claiming it was somehow selfless is a bit of a stretch. Especially considering we won't get any of those, any way it pans out.
Jun 30th 2016, 3:34 pm
#73
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Location: Mallorca
Posts: 19,367
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
Jun 30th 2016, 4:19 pm
#74
Banned
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 13
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
I didn't mention that expats paying tax were unique but are entitled to have an interest in how that tax is paid as are you if you pay uk tax. I won't argue with your opinion. Health care in Spain or indeed anywhere in the eu is derived from having paid National Insurance not tax and yes I personally can understand why many elderly are worried at losing it. I would imagine that and the pension indexing was a big draw to choosing to retire to the eu. At least you knew when you chose Canada that you would get neither free health care or pension indexing, therefore you made an informed choice they did not, that is not as you say "naive".
Jun 30th 2016, 4:25 pm
#75
Banned
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 13
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
Give yourself another pat on the back billgates. I'm sure Donald Trump gives himself one every day.
