High Electric Bill
Jul 10th 2012, 7:40 am
#18
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: High Electric Bill
I never understood the UK system where someone puts electricity on to a cable and someone else bills the consumer for it.
Same goes for water.
Was a time in the not too dim and distant past that all utilities were public owned, none of this shaving bits off here and there, all having to make their profits and charging the consumer for infrastructure they can never own, whilst paying out good money to "shareholders"
.
Same goes for water.
Was a time in the not too dim and distant past that all utilities were public owned, none of this shaving bits off here and there, all having to make their profits and charging the consumer for infrastructure they can never own, whilst paying out good money to "shareholders"
.
Jul 10th 2012, 8:43 am
#19
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 19,367
Re: High Electric Bill
Not true - look it up on Google!
It is a major Spanish energy producing company and has nothing to do with Endesa!
There are loads of Spanish energy companies in the free market who can supply electricity.
Yes, your particular units may come from one particular generating company who produce it but another company can bill it.
In certain parts of Spain one company produces it and in another part another company also does - they can also bill consumers in parts of the country that they do not produce. Iberdrola is based in the north of Spain, Endesa in the south.
We are in the south and are supplied by Endesa but billed by Iberdrola.
In Bilbao you would be supplied by Iberdrola and you could be billed by Endesa.
These companies are all producers but they are able to also bill consumers outside of their production area under the Mercado Libre rules.
It is a major Spanish energy producing company and has nothing to do with Endesa!
There are loads of Spanish energy companies in the free market who can supply electricity.
Yes, your particular units may come from one particular generating company who produce it but another company can bill it.
In certain parts of Spain one company produces it and in another part another company also does - they can also bill consumers in parts of the country that they do not produce. Iberdrola is based in the north of Spain, Endesa in the south.
We are in the south and are supplied by Endesa but billed by Iberdrola.
In Bilbao you would be supplied by Iberdrola and you could be billed by Endesa.
These companies are all producers but they are able to also bill consumers outside of their production area under the Mercado Libre rules.
Here, there is ONLY Endesa. That's it. But to create the illusion that there is "competition" in the market, there are a number of alternative power companies available which you may choose to contract to take over the billing of Endesa's power supply.
Iberdrola is one of them. They give you a few cents discount for off-peak consumption. Otherwise, Endesa supplies all the power and the technical maintenance.
Jul 10th 2012, 8:57 am
#20
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Living in a good place
Posts: 8,824
Re: High Electric Bill
Jul 10th 2012, 9:23 am
#21
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Granada Costa
Posts: 10,898
Re: High Electric Bill
If I'm mistaken, my apologies.
Here, there is ONLY Endesa. That's it. But to create the illusion that there is "competition" in the market, there are a number of alternative power companies available which you may choose to contract to take over the billing of Endesa's power supply.
Iberdrola is one of them. They give you a few cents discount for off-peak consumption. Otherwise, Endesa supplies all the power and the technical maintenance.
Here, there is ONLY Endesa. That's it. But to create the illusion that there is "competition" in the market, there are a number of alternative power companies available which you may choose to contract to take over the billing of Endesa's power supply.
Iberdrola is one of them. They give you a few cents discount for off-peak consumption. Otherwise, Endesa supplies all the power and the technical maintenance.
There are quite a lot of generating companies in Spain, some small and very local, others covering half the country. Down here in the south, Endesa is the major supplier, in the north it's Iberdrola and they have loads of power stations including 5 nuclear plants and the biggest windfarm in Europe!
This "cross billing" has always confused me especially when you end up buying gas from an electricity company!
Your comments about the small discount they give if you change over is because all tariffs supplied to normal domestic customers are still government controlled so they don't actually have much room to haggle on price. They just end up tweaking the monthly charge or as you say, playing around with the peak/off peak rates if you are on the dual tariff.
If, like us, you are on a high potencia tariff the differences can be quite large which is why we changed from Endesa to Iberdrola.
There is a website which allows you to check out what deals are available based on your actual consumption. If you come under the 10kw or less tariff you will see there is very little difference but if you try the "free market" tariffs which only apply to the high potencia customers there is a very big difference. The bad news is that all these free market tariffs are higher than the controlled lower tariffs.
http://www.comparador.cne.es/compara...x.cfm?js=1&e=N
Jul 10th 2012, 11:39 am
#22
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 19,367
Re: High Electric Bill
No need to apologise - it's a common misunderstanding.
There are quite a lot of generating companies in Spain, some small and very local, others covering half the country. Down here in the south, Endesa is the major supplier, in the north it's Iberdrola and they have loads of power stations including 5 nuclear plants and the biggest windfarm in Europe!
This "cross billing" has always confused me especially when you end up buying gas from an electricity company!
Your comments about the small discount they give if you change over is because all tariffs supplied to normal domestic customers are still government controlled so they don't actually have much room to haggle on price. They just end up tweaking the monthly charge or as you say, playing around with the peak/off peak rates if you are on the dual tariff.
If, like us, you are on a high potencia tariff the differences can be quite large which is why we changed from Endesa to Iberdrola.
There is a website which allows you to check out what deals are available based on your actual consumption. If you come under the 10kw or less tariff you will see there is very little difference but if you try the "free market" tariffs which only apply to the high potencia customers there is a very big difference. The bad news is that all these free market tariffs are higher than the controlled lower tariffs.
http://www.comparador.cne.es/compara...x.cfm?js=1&e=N
There are quite a lot of generating companies in Spain, some small and very local, others covering half the country. Down here in the south, Endesa is the major supplier, in the north it's Iberdrola and they have loads of power stations including 5 nuclear plants and the biggest windfarm in Europe!
This "cross billing" has always confused me especially when you end up buying gas from an electricity company!
Your comments about the small discount they give if you change over is because all tariffs supplied to normal domestic customers are still government controlled so they don't actually have much room to haggle on price. They just end up tweaking the monthly charge or as you say, playing around with the peak/off peak rates if you are on the dual tariff.
If, like us, you are on a high potencia tariff the differences can be quite large which is why we changed from Endesa to Iberdrola.
There is a website which allows you to check out what deals are available based on your actual consumption. If you come under the 10kw or less tariff you will see there is very little difference but if you try the "free market" tariffs which only apply to the high potencia customers there is a very big difference. The bad news is that all these free market tariffs are higher than the controlled lower tariffs.
http://www.comparador.cne.es/compara...x.cfm?js=1&e=N
Well, we finally managed to get our "obligatory" 10.8Kw contract changed to 5Kw. Despite their guarantees that the change was 100% "gratuito", it only costed about €350, substantially less than the installation of the ICP (also "gratuito"), for example. Unfortunately, we still have to pay 10c per day for the "rental" of the ICP which I purchased outright. Hmmph!
Now, our facturas (always "estimado") actually somewhat resemble our actual consumption, instead of consistently receiving shocking €800 facturas when we've actually consumed €80.
Anyway, we called Iberdrola, and they sent a very nice lady to our home to evaluate what benefits they could offer us. But since we are no longer "obliged" to pay astronomical "estimado" facturas, they were very honest and told us they could only save us a few Euros, and the cost of switching would actually cost more than the savings. But at least they were honest about it.
Although we still have a monopoly here, I am pleased to see that some of the "monopolies" that rule the rest of this country are slowly being eradicated. It's about time.
Last edited by amideislas; Jul 10th 2012 at 12:15 pm.
Jul 11th 2012, 7:41 pm
#23
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 985
Re: High Electric Bill
Which, with the IVA going up on Monday by 3 points, will mean another increase in the electric bill (see the entertainer online)
Jul 11th 2012, 10:31 pm
#24
Banned
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,008
Re: High Electric Bill
Jul 11th 2012, 11:48 pm
#25
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: On Top of the World
Posts: 17,507
Re: High Electric Bill
The way things are going I can see Donkeys making a comeback.
Lots of free fuel along the roadside and everything recycled and put to good use one way or another.
What could be better,though maybe er indoors will have to walk along behind as my 20 stone plus the shopping will be enough for the donkey.
On the other hand the filthy rich will probably have two, an is and an ers with twin stables to match.
Lots of free fuel along the roadside and everything recycled and put to good use one way or another.
What could be better,though maybe er indoors will have to walk along behind as my 20 stone plus the shopping will be enough for the donkey.
On the other hand the filthy rich will probably have two, an is and an ers with twin stables to match.
Jul 12th 2012, 4:34 am
#26
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Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Land of no recession
Posts: 10,717
Jul 12th 2012, 7:10 am
#27
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: High Electric Bill
The way things are going I can see Donkeys making a comeback.
Lots of free fuel along the roadside and everything recycled and put to good use one way or another.
What could be better,though maybe er indoors will have to walk along behind as my 20 stone plus the shopping will be enough for the donkey.
On the other hand the filthy rich will probably have two, an is and an ers with twin stables to match.
Lots of free fuel along the roadside and everything recycled and put to good use one way or another.
What could be better,though maybe er indoors will have to walk along behind as my 20 stone plus the shopping will be enough for the donkey.
On the other hand the filthy rich will probably have two, an is and an ers with twin stables to match.
do Harrods do a hat for donkey's ?
if you have enough donkeys you will be able to save electricity by generating methane from the rear end - but not as acidic, toxic or prolific as a herd of cows
Jul 12th 2012, 9:01 am
#28
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: On Top of the World
Posts: 17,507
Re: High Electric Bill
That settles it. With all those factors in favour and few if any drawbacks, a donkey ranch it is for me.
They'll be earning money 24hrs a day even when stabled and I hope they don't expect weekends off with extra hay, cos it will be down to the beach and rides for the kids, a nice little earner.
Probably an exciting new experience for Spanish youngsters,should go well.
Shall have to give one of them free rides in return for following along behind and picking up for the rest of the day with a bucket and spade, just the job for my roses.
Burros are the future.
They'll be earning money 24hrs a day even when stabled and I hope they don't expect weekends off with extra hay, cos it will be down to the beach and rides for the kids, a nice little earner.
Probably an exciting new experience for Spanish youngsters,should go well.
Shall have to give one of them free rides in return for following along behind and picking up for the rest of the day with a bucket and spade, just the job for my roses.
Burros are the future.
Jul 12th 2012, 9:26 am
#29
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Granada Costa
Posts: 10,898
Re: High Electric Bill
Can we drop the donkey and get back to kilowatts?
Jul 12th 2012, 10:26 am
#30
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: On Top of the World
Posts: 17,507
Re: High Electric Bill
Ah but this isn't a dead donkey Fred.
Sorry if I didn't make myself clear but my intention is to utilise the donkey bi-products in order to power a generator to produce electricity.
Not sure how many kilowatts it will be, but in these desperate times every little helps.
Sorry if I didn't make myself clear but my intention is to utilise the donkey bi-products in order to power a generator to produce electricity.
Not sure how many kilowatts it will be, but in these desperate times every little helps.