British Expats

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-   Spain (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/)
-   -   Help if possible (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/help-if-possible-872143/)

Horlics Feb 10th 2016 2:14 am

Re: Help if possible
 
Hi Murphy, I worked in Abu Dhabi for several years. People who move to the UAE must apply for residence, as you know, in order to work there. But whilst you are resident in the UAE, it does not necessarily mean you aren’t tax resident in the UK or anywhere else. I suspect the UK wants tax from you either because you aren’t outside of the UK enough days in a year or because they believe it to be the centre of your interests, which would be because your wife and kids are there.

You should have filled in a P85 at which point the UK tax people will have clarified exactly what they make of your circumstances and what that means in terms of tax payments. If your family becomes resident in Spain you will have to have the same dialogue with the Spanish authorities. It appears you want to base your wife and family in Spain, have your wife pay tax in the UK on what she earns, and pay a bit of tax in Spain on the 1000 ish a month you transfer to her. Absolutely it ain’t gonna work, my friend, and the Spanish tax man will make that clear to you.

You’ve hatched the plan of using Spain as a home albeit with wife and you both in and out to make money whilst limiting tax payments. To enjoy all the benefits of the zero tax in the UAE you have to live there, full time, with wife and family. If you don’t, your European home country (be it the UK or Spain) is going to take its slab of meat.

BTW, your employer is breaking the law if you are not being supplied with a wage slip.

And your UAE bank(s) (two accounts, I don’t know why, you’re doing nothing that can’t be done with one) will send details of your balance and amounts in and out to the UK HMRC if they ask for it.

Horlics Feb 10th 2016 2:16 am

Re: Help if possible
 

Originally Posted by BigD Nerja (Post 11863317)
However the danger of being caught in Spain is very slim indeed!

In respect of a wide range of things I would agree with you, but on this one absolutely not. The UK and Spain are as good as each other at detecting this and they're both very good.

Rosemary Feb 10th 2016 2:34 am

Re: Help if possible
 

Originally Posted by Murphy1804 (Post 11862429)
Thanks Scot, its a hard one to try and get my head around and is one of the factors of me leaving the UK as they want me to declare and pay tax on everything i earn in UAE but they don't take into consideration my living costs in the UAE, as the uk has a 90 day taxation law I'm stuck, i don't get wage slips and my employer will only pay into a middle eastern account, the landlord of the house we are moving too has said i can pay everything direct to her each month and they will sort out the utilities for me, its more the fact i want her to have easy access to funds while I'm away, maybe cash is the answer? please don't try and think I'm running away from paying taxes that isn't the case

I doubt very much whether any country would take into account a persons living expenses. Tax is paid on the money earned not after allowing for what it costs for you to live there.

Rosemary

BigD Nerja Feb 10th 2016 3:14 am

Re: Help if possible
 
Murphy as I understand it you work full time in the UAE, there is no income tax levied there and you are considered resident in the UAE. You want to make yourself non-resident in the UK by spending less than 90 days there and you want to do this by being in Spain?
My understanding is that the only way to legally avoid paying income tax is to move your entire family to the middle east where it is zero weighted and not be in the UK for more than 90 days in any tax year.
You should legally declare and pay tax on your entire world wide income in either Spain or the UK depending on where your family are or where you are when not in the UAE. (centre of economic interest/90 days).
Expenses incurred in the UAE can not be offset against either tax regime. Transfer of money between husband and wife for living expenses are not regarded as income for tax purposes.
If you want to break the law and avoid tax then things to consider; the UAE, UK and Spain are signatories of the Multilateral Competent Authority Agreement and can share details with each other if requested (as Horlics mentioned above). HMRC are pretty efficient and the UK system is designed to prevent fraud. The Spanish system not so much!

Mitzyboy Feb 10th 2016 3:24 am

Re: Help if possible
 

Originally Posted by BigD Nerja (Post 11862456)
Murphy I suggest you look at a currency card for your wife, Canton FX do one as do others. You can load it each month or with a lump sum and your wife can use it and withdraw money. These are separate from Spanish banks and are not within Spanish jurisdiction.
Regarding your wife's tax status, without wishing to resurrect another thread I suggest you take a look at the 'to do or not to do' thread further down the page. Lots of info and opinion on residency and tax!


Originally Posted by Murphy1804 (Post 11862459)
Thanks BigD ill take a look

I have one of those, I can use it all over the world. It's charged with cash by you in the UAE, and your wife would just go to a cash point / ATM and withdraw. Of course that means there is no income through a bank in Spain attributed to her, just in the extreme there would be questions about how your wife gets the money to live :-) Not suggesting or condoning anything, just saying :lol:

cricketman Feb 10th 2016 3:32 am

Re: Help if possible
 

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy (Post 11863401)
I have one of those, I can use it all over the world. It's charged with cash by you in the UAE, and your wife would just go to a cash point / ATM and withdraw. Of course that means there is no income through a bank in Spain attributed to her, just in the extreme there would be questions about how your wife gets the money to live :-) Not suggesting or condoning anything, just saying :lol:

If the children are sent to state schools then they do random checks on those foreigners who have children in the local school, but declare no income in Spain

Murphy1804 Feb 10th 2016 3:40 am

Re: Help if possible
 
Ok thanks all for your comments and help, i wasn't wanting to avoid any taxes. i just wasn't sure on whats required, as i read that if i was out of the country so much i personally wouldn't be liable for tax in Spain, i don't own a house in the UK and was planning on renting one in Spain.... Maybe not now though. I would end up paying a higher % tax rate in spain than i would in the UK, Im ok as I'm in the heat for 7 months of the year, the mrs won't be too happy :( oh well back to the drawing board.

Horlics Feb 10th 2016 4:02 am

Re: Help if possible
 
If your wife and family are not out there with you, the UK or Spain are going to want a cut of your pay.

I remember one colleague resigning and heading back to the UK, only to reappear in the UAE within a month. On his arrival home he went to see a tax advisor who informed him he would owe 70k if he remained in the UK. He hadn't done enough time away with proof of a permanent residence abroad.

He admitted he should have seen the advisor sooner.

Working outside of the UK is straightforward tax-wise if you shift your whole family with you and spend at least a full tax year away. Any other scenario can be complicated and should be checked.

The UK and Spain are actually pretty generous in that they allow you to work away for several years and then return having paid nothing and yet start accessing state healthcare and benefits again.

Unlike the USA whose citizens have to pay some tax on earnings abroad or give up their citizenship.

Mitzyboy Feb 10th 2016 11:18 am

Re: Help if possible
 

Originally Posted by cricketman (Post 11863410)
If the children are sent to state schools then they do random checks on those foreigners who have children in the local school, but declare no income in Spain

Yes, thats what I said ;):lol:


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