Heating Pool
 

Hi to all
Is it worth having solar heating installed to raise the pool temp a few degrees.

What is the down side apart from they look horrendous.

Thanks in advance

Re: Heating Pool
 

Cost of installation. I doubt they are very effective?

I would invest in a pool cover first.

Re: Heating Pool
 

We have winter cover, summer cover and hot water, solar panels.

If I had my time again, I wouldn't bother with the panels.

Re: Heating Pool
 

Hi
We have pool cover, need to know pit falls if any on solar heating for pool only.

Re: Heating Pool
 

We have the black panels that have very fine tubes in. The water flows through them and heats up. We have an extra pump for this circuit as well as a control box to dictate when to turn the pump on and off based on the difference in water temperature (pool and panels).

The cost was not insignificant and the gain is not large enough to warrant the expense.

As missile said, we benefit more from the winter cover (at the beginning of the season) and the summer cover which helps reduce chemical evaporation and increases the pool temp by 5-7 degrees.

Re: Heating Pool
 

I looked into it when we moved to Spain, and the cost of solar panels to raise it a few degrees was pointless, and a few degrees is not going to lengthen the number of weeks you can use the pool comfortably for anyway

Re: Heating Pool
 

Thanks for all replies.
Just had quote for solar heating the pool 8m by 4m.
3500 euros plus Iva .
Not wanting to extend the number of weeks we can use the pool, but would like to increase the temp, up to 28 if poss.
Running costs of heat pump getting up say 28 in May if correct would be 150 euros then 5 euros per day to keep it there would that be correct. We are only here 10 days every 6 weeks.
Thanks in advance.

Re: Heating Pool
 

Our pool gets to about 30 every season! We probably get to 28 in May and then it stays that or more 'till late September.

If you haven't got one already, maybe the cheaper option is to try and very good quality summer cover first. I got mine from England and even with shipping it was only a couple of hundred euros.

Re: Heating Pool
 

How many of you guys with pools use them all year round?

We have just bought a place with a pool which isn't heated at present and has hot water provided by an instantaneous LPG gas unit.

I intend to install Solar Thermal tubes into a store to provide hot water. Once the hot water is to temperature I would send the excess heat to the pool via a heat exchanger. The rest of the pool heat required would be met by a heat pump. This unit could also be used in winter to heat radiators/convectors. I just need to confirm cost per kWh of gas and electricity and I could estimate the running cost.

Will let anybody know who's interested how I get on. I am at present a renewables engineer BTW.

Re: Heating Pool
 

Hi and a warm welcome to the Spanish forum on BE. Myself and Fred James are the moderators for the Spanish forums whilst BEVS moderates Europe. Moderators are there to ensure that the site runs smoothly within the rules of BE. This is so that members gain the information that they are looking for and find their experiences on the forums to be friendly and worthwhile.

Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderator who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are usually friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge about the issues of living in Spain. I hope that you enjoy your time participating in the forums.

Please let me know if you need any further help.

Rosemary

Re: Heating Pool
 

The vast majority of gas in Spain is provided in cylinders, either the small 12.5k or the larger 21k (think thats the sizes) The small ones are 17.50€ each price is set nationally, supplied by Cepsa or Repsol. There is very little natural (piped) gas, especially outside of the big cities.

Electricity prices can vary depending on what tariff you select and which company you contract with, but are broadly similar to each other, this is what was on our last bill....
Potencia (consider this like the standing meter charge in the UK) 40.40€
Price per Kwh 0.119397€

There was controversy earlier this year because rather than increase the price per unit, the companies increased massively the meter charge. The logic was that many homes are only used in the summer (holiday homes) and they were missing out on winter usage to these people. But it affected everyone in Spain. The promise was that electricity supplied would not rise- nobody believes this will not happen when winter sets in.

Re: Heating Pool
 

we use a solar cover for our pool, currently not being used as water is a very nice 30dg, we were first in the pool in April 17th to be exact, and temp in pool was 27dg. should be in use to end of October, to the new person asking if we use year round, Spain does have winters lol can be quite cold in a lot of places;)

Re: Heating Pool
 

I think it is a total waste of money to heat the pool.
I can't imagine dashing out to the pool in cold weather, then in again afterwards, too cold to relax by the pool.the expense alone is enough to put you off.
Covers? Very few use them more bother than they're worth, get covered in muck, not attractive
I would prefer the sight of the pool, and see what's going on, state of pool water level etc.
The only time I might use one is if it is a holiday home,left for long periods

Re: Heating Pool
 

I'd agree to some extent, but the solar covers do have their use. Such as stopping the loss of water when you are not using it. When we were away we used to have people come around twice a week in the summer to top up. However solar panels, as I stated before, don't actually make enough difference to make it worth it. It's a large expanse of water. If you manage to raise the temperature even by 4 degrees going into October or November it's still not enough for comfortable bathing.

Unheated, we used to use our pool from some time in April through to early October

Re: Heating Pool
 

Look at Scandinavia were most people use their pool or hot tub all year round. With a decent heat pump these days, running costs will be minimal. If you use it twice a week in winter, definitely worth it.

Re: Heating Pool
 

Crikey, we were in the pool mid April as well. But it was a rather numbing 20dg. Does a cover increase temperature that much? If so recommendations please for Nerja area.

Re: Heating Pool
 

A good summer cover can raise the pool temp. by up to 6 degrees.

You need to get a good one though - simple bubble wrap won't cut it :p

I bought the 500 micron version for an 8 x 5 metre pool I think it cost me £185

Re: Heating Pool
 

That's cheap- I was quoted nearly 1000 euros.
Needless to say, L declined it.

Re: Heating Pool
 

Can you tell me the cost of electricity per kWh plus any standing charge.

I'm sure you could heat enough water for domestic use all year round with solar tubes heating a cylinder(thermal store). You have to take a long term view retrieving the cost of the installation but with gas 3 times the cost than the UK that's possible. The excess energy not required would go the pool and the heat pump would cover the rest with the climate a COP of 3 or more would be easy( 1kw in 3kW out). We heat houses to 21 in the uk in the depths of winter using heat pumps BTW although our insulation standards are higher.

Anyway in going to do it as we will be living there full time within 2 years.:thumbsup:

Re: Heating Pool
 

Ahhh ... so you're a seller .... I understand

Yes, you could probably heat your domestic water all year round, but thats not quite the same as heating a large outside pool when the temperatures at night drop to very cold to sometimes freezing outside.
You're going to need to raise the pool temperature by a very large margin to make it worthwhile .... you can do that?

Re: Heating Pool
 

DO you recall where you bought it? Did you buy in the UK - I'd assumed they were cheaper in Spain. £4sqm sounds very very reasonable to me. I was expecting nearer £10 - £15 sqm, or £500 to £700 for that size.

Re: Heating Pool
 

Since you've asked, I think I can give a link; Geobubble Swimming Pool Covers

This is their latest product but still only £230 for my size of pool.

I enquired in Spain and the prices were nearly four times as much! So, even with a little (I paid a 'man-with-a-van' £25) delivery cost it was worth buying in UK.

BTW - I have no business ties with the company other than being a customer.

Re: Heating Pool
 

Many, many thanks! Swimming in April - purrfect!

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I'm retiring to Spain not to work thanks and avoid cynical people ;)

My interest and discussion here stems from the fact that I won't be living there for a while. I want to get away from LPG water heating with expensive fuel, servicing requirements and a conventional flued appliance that could produce Carbon monoxide(a small amount kills you).

If I install solar thermal with a tank if I am not there it is likely to get excessively hot (110 plus) and this will eventually cause problems. My idea of dumping the excess heat into the pool was simply to get rid of it. However this set me thinking if I'm starting to contribute heat to the pool as I don't have any at present why not add a heat pump.

Anyway just think about all the polar bears I'll be saving.:angel:

Re: Heating Pool
 

I wasn't being cynical, I was asking you a question because I investigated this for quite a while and never came up with a cost effective way that actually made any difference to the time that you could use the pool. The reason being that when it gets cold in Spain, it gets very cold. It's had been known for my pool to freeze over.

Most of the systems would maybe give someone another week but by November and through to (probably) March it would need a serious heating system to make it bearable.

My niece owns a swimming pool down in Burnham on Sea which has proper pool heating. It costs them a fortune (please check power costs in Spain), and the only way they managed to make it less costly was to buy one of those sliding pool covers, and keep it closed all winter. Still not cheap though

Just thoughts ... thats all

Re: Heating Pool
 

Mitziboy I was joking with the cynical reference. I am looking generally at cost's in Spain and energy usage is is just part of it. I guess most did the same before leaving the UK.

We will have a pool cover and will follow up on suppliers mentioned here. This and other forums are a good resource for us newbie's.

From figures I've worked out so far electricity cost in Spain is 25% cheaper than uk and bottled gas to natural gas comparison makes Spain 50% more.

I'm still keen on installing some renewables but not selling them to anybody in Spain! I'm coming to enjoy the lifestyle to the full.

Re: Heating Pool
 

Yes I know :lol:.

OK .... thats interesting ... input from others might be useful here because I don't believe that to be accurate, and thats my point I guess. Many people here complain about the cost of energy in Spain. In Spain our electricity (no gas) was at a minimum around €80 a month in the summer months rising to around €180 a month in the winter. Similar house in the UK, we pay now £80 a month standing order and that seems to be covering it. One of the things to bear in mind is that houses in Spain are not always built to the same energy standards as the UK, and therefore take a lot more to heat and keep heated.

There are a lot of things much cheaper in Spain, but from my experience now ..... energy isn't one of them.

Re: Heating Pool
 

A couple of other things to consider, the warmer the pool the more chemcals you will use.
We have alse seen pools turn green when the covers have been left on for too long, the water has got too hot and the chemical balance changed.

Re: Heating Pool
 

Bri & Katie stated in an earlier post that electric cost 0.12 € kWh plus standing charge.

Has anyone worked out the true cost per kWh? In the uk at present electricity cost's approximately 15p inc standing charge and sometimes higher if you are on a poor contract.

Re: Heating Pool
 

I reckon it's more like €0.25kWh if I include the standing and other charges. Nowhere near €0.12kWh, which is aboutwhat I pay in the UK.

Before we moved electricty (water, heating and cooking) for our 2 bed apartment in winter was always never less than €100 a month

Re: Heating Pool
 

Just checked European wide energy prices and net cost equals

€0.18 Spain

€0.17 uk

The 12p rate quoted above almost certainly doesn't include standing charge and VAT and as the fixed contracts expire the new rates are 15p(€0.18) plus, so very similar price spain- UK now.

Re: Heating Pool
 

I'm not sure where you checked them

The rate I have UK is 11.11p per kw inc VAT with a £5.40 per month standing charge - I took that out over the last few months

Based on 500 kw pm - £60.95

The last rate with Iberdrola (2012) was €16.77 per kw
Then you pay your meter hire €0.60 a month
Standing charge €11.01 per month

Based on 500 kw pm - £78.24

Our usage was almost always around 800 kw per month

If you have a higher potencia, then the rates are higher. Ours was 5.75. I'm guessing rates have gone up since summer 2012

As I said before, you then have to take into consideration that heating a house in winter in Spain is a lot more of a challenge than in the UK. The houses a built to keep out heat, not to to keep heat in.

Re: Heating Pool
 

I don't think any thought is given to insulation when they build some of these houses
A lot are just slabs of concrete, with no layers of insulation
You freeze or fry!

Re: Heating Pool
 

The contract you have in the uk is a good one but to get the true cost per kWh you need to build the standing charge in. If you do that with your figures the true cost per kWh is 13.2p or 16.5€.

I don't understand the Spanish billing do they charge by the kWh?

Re: Heating Pool
 

Coincidentally, I had my renewal through yesterday from SSE in the UK.

Electric 11.82 per KWh and 23.02 a day charge.
Gas 3.88 per KWH and 23.02 a day charge.

That is a 12 month contract with an exit fee of £25 for each supply, 2 year one would be a bit cheaper but I may not be in the Uk in 2 years fingers crossed.

Re: Heating Pool
 

Purely for comparison of charges :-

Gibraltar

Electricity

Meter £4.00 per month
Electric 8.80p / Kwh
FCA 4.00p / Kwh

FCA is fuel charge adjustment and allows the company to change the price of electricity without applying to the Government for an increase in charges :rofl:
However it has remained at £04.00 for many years.

Therefore electric is actually 12.80p / Kwh

My last bill total was £50.98 for 367 Kwh or 13.89p /Kwh, there is no tax.

Water,
Water in Gib is made by desalination, an expensive process.

Meter £3.00 per month
Water 24.90p per 100 litres equals £2.49 per cubic meter.

My last bill total £13.21 for 41 units or 4.1 cubic meters or £3.22 per cubic meter no tax.

Please also note swimming pools require their own meter and the charges are 3 times the normal domestic rate, so rather expensive.
A recent leak returned a bill in excess of £10,000 :(

Re: Heating Pool
 

Yes, but then my Spanish account charges would (a) increase when I built in the standing charge also (thats why I put them both separately) and (b) those are Spanish 2012 rates, two years increases to go on that against up to date UK.

Yes, they charge per kw, just like the UK, but you can choose your potencia, depending on what your requirements are ... a higher potencia = higher kw charges iirc.

Re: Heating Pool
 

I'm afraid you have to factor in standing charge when comparing energy cost's. If you are a small user it increases your cost per kWh. If you are large user it dilutes the cost.

I need to investigate current prices when I'm over in a few weeks :(

Re: Heating Pool
 

You misunderstand I think. I purposely showed the standing charges separately. They are similar for Spain and the UK. If you factor them in to the rate per kw they will make almost the same increase to the rates per kw Spain or UK, confirming that based on Spanish 2012 rates, the UK is still cheaper now than Spain was 2 years ago, and we haven't factored in the Cavity Wall issue yet ;):lol: