Health care

Old Oct 5th 2014, 12:37 am
  #16  
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Default Re: Health care

Originally Posted by Fred James
As I have pointed out many times, you are only deemed resident after 183 days - the green form is a total red herring - it merely gives you the right to remain in Spain for more than 90 days. It does not make you a resident - FACT.

The key point is that the EHIC is only valid for UK residents and after only 90 days in Spain you are very clearly a still UK resident.
I know your view on this Fred, but many articles disagree with you or maybe they have interpreted the situation like I have - it really is confusing when it doesn't need to be.

For example, would you care to comment on section 3 (esp. 3.2 for non-eu) of this link.
Residence permit is required in order to remain and live in Spain after a period of time exceeding 90 days..
Why do they quote 90 days if that duration is really NOT important?
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Old Oct 5th 2014, 12:44 am
  #17  
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Default Re: Health care

"European Union citizens can freely enter, exit, travel and remain in Spain, and are not obliged to fulfill any residence requirements in order to live or stay in Spain for any longer than 3 months . "

That says you dont need to do anything if you want to stay longer than 3 months. You only need to if you are not an EU national.

Pretty clear to me (I think?).
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Old Oct 5th 2014, 12:49 am
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Default Re: Health care

The first paragraph says nothing about being deemed resident.


As for non EU citizens, the rules are entirely different and have no relevance the Certificate of Registration process.

The relevant law, Real Decreto 240/2007, says that you must register after 90 days if you wish to stay or take up residence.

It says nothing about you being deemed resident.

The reason it is 90 days is that is the maximum period you can remain in any EU country as a tourist - it's EU law from the EU Directive on Residency which was included in the new Spanish law. It has no other relevance to anything else.

Last edited by Fred James; Oct 5th 2014 at 12:51 am.
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Old Oct 5th 2014, 1:02 am
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Default Re: Health care

This link outlines the requirements.
https://www.gov.uk/residency-requirements-in-spain
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Old Oct 5th 2014, 1:24 am
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Default Re: Health care

When in Spain do as the Spanish ask not the UK government.

From the previous link it doesn't say you have to register and that's from a Spanish lawyer I believe!

"European Union (EU) and European Economic Area (EEA) Citizens: All EU and EEA citizens and their family members have the right to live and work in Spain for up to a period of 3 months without needing a Residence Certificate (not the same as a Residence Permit). From 10 July 2012 the Spanish Government introduced new residency requirements for all EU citizens wishing to remain in Spain for longer than three months. Under these new rules EU citizens wishing to stay in Spain for longer than three months may be asked to prove that they have sufficient financial means to support themselves and any dependants. They may also be required to provide proof of private or public healthcare insurance."

I have made bold "may" as this is clearly not compulsory. http://spain.angloinfo.com/moving/residency/

Last edited by cliff b; Oct 5th 2014 at 1:31 am.
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Old Oct 5th 2014, 1:40 am
  #21  
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Default Re: Health care

Originally Posted by Porth
Fred is please my understanding correct that if a S1 was issued by Newcastle to Spain and it was registered through the system in Spain then we would be entitled to the same level of care as befits a Spanish National. Being indeed both retired and in my case 70 and my wife 67

You will know that last year was difficult for us

best wishes
True, but remember that this could still mean that your wife may have a problem regarding her medication because it may not be available to Spanish Nationals so therefore not available to her.

Many medications have to be authorised by the inspectors and even if the hospital has said that this is the only course of treatment it is never certain that they will agree to it.

We had to gain the inspectors approval for a liquid food for my husband even though this was continuing the treatment that he was receiving in the hospital.

A friend of mine is a diabetic and she was receiving a new method of treatment which was being made in a Spanish factory but when that factory stopped making the product the inspectors decided that they would not buy it in from abroad so she had to return to her original treatment.

Rosemary
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Old Oct 5th 2014, 1:50 am
  #22  
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Default Re: Health care

Originally Posted by bobd22
This link outlines the requirements.
https://www.gov.uk/residency-requirements-in-spain
From that link;

From 28 March 2007, Royal Decree 240/07 requires that all EU citizens planning to reside in Spain for more than 3 months should register in person at the Oficina de Extranjeros in their province of residence or at designated Police stations. You will be issued an A4 printed Residence Certificate stating your name, address, nationality, NIE number (Número de Identificación Extranjeros) and date of registration.
Isn't it sad when your own Government get it wrong then !..
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Old Oct 5th 2014, 1:54 am
  #23  
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Default Re: Health care

Originally Posted by bobd22
Firstly I do not break the law, I merely point out that I know of people who have done this, that is not saying I have done that and I did say " I am not saying it is right".

As Fred says signing the foreigners register neither makes one a Spanish resident or a UK non resident.

Could you define for me what length a temporary stay is? Because the web site doesnt. Certainly I would not deem a 3,4 or 5 month stay permanent.

Yes I know there have been cases where it has been said that people have been refused treatment for various reasons in Spain however I also believe that the EU taken action re this in many cases.

I do not condone or encourage people to break the law claiming non Spanish residency when they are in fact resident, but that is down to people moral values. Again as has been said on previous threads, problem is these more recent rules for signing the foreigners register are pretty much unworkable for a non resident to comply. The authorities won't accept long term holiday insurance as proof of medical cover, having to prove income to stay more than 3 months!. On top of which I believe to prove this income it has to be in a Spanish bank account? OK if non resident homeowner younwill have a Spanish bank account, but who would say rent a place for say a 4 month holiday and open a Spanish bank account? If something is unworkable then it tends leads to non compliance.

One final point re Porths informative comment, the EHIC is not only for emergency treatment (per NHS Website) it can be for routine treatment including childbirth, oxygen and dialisis etc in fact people on dialisis can get holidays with this treatment arranged by the NHS. Obviously the health authorities that Porth dealt with breached the rules set by the EU re the EHIC, does anyone think it is OK for the authorities to breach the rules?
I did not and do not think it is acceptable. But at the time the Salud in Javea and its employees had seen a 25% reduction in salaries. These guys turning up in Spain perhaps should not be there. A human reaction and I am trying to erase my memory of the Salud. It was horrific. How about caring for those who are ill. Does money come into it? Tongue in cheek here.
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Old Oct 5th 2014, 4:09 am
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Default Re: Health care

isn't it sad when your own Government get it wrong then !..

In fairness in Sect 3 they do outline the requirements following the 2012 change

Last edited by bobd22; Oct 5th 2014 at 4:24 am.
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Old Oct 5th 2014, 4:21 am
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Default Re: Health care

When in Spain do as the Spanish ask not the UK government.

I put the link on as it outlines the requirements, if you choose not to agree then fair enough. It is the case that different areas of Spain apply the rules differently, however if a person choses to comply with the 2012 rules for signing on the foreigners register then I think you will find that they will have to comply as is outlined, certainly that is the case in the area we have our property.

Last edited by bobd22; Oct 5th 2014 at 4:25 am.
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Old Oct 5th 2014, 4:28 am
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Default Re: Health care

Originally Posted by Rosemary
True, but remember that this could still mean that your wife may have a problem regarding her medication because it may not be available to Spanish Nationals so therefore not available to her.

Many medications have to be authorised by the inspectors and even if the hospital has said that this is the only course of treatment it is never certain that they will agree to it.

We had to gain the inspectors approval for a liquid food for my husband even though this was continuing the treatment that he was receiving in the hospital.

A friend of mine is a diabetic and she was receiving a new method of treatment which was being made in a Spanish factory but when that factory stopped making the product the inspectors decided that they would not buy it in from abroad so she had to return to her original treatment.

Rosemary
Dear Rosemary I hear what you say and from your posts I think you are a convert to most things Spanish.

So my wife has suffered from Rhematoid Arthritis for over 38 years and her fingers and feet are deformed. Without Humira (Google please) then life would be unbearable and going to meet our maker would be soon upon us.

So line of least resistance stay in the UK or go back to France where and sorry no one will convince me otherwise the Health system surpasses both the UK and Spain.

We want one last hurrah and for my wife to spend some valuable time with her brother in Calpe but seriously would you take a chance on Spain. Better the devil you know?

Rosemary and maybe it is a cause of the malaise in the UK but when faced with medical needs the medics do the work and argue later as to costs and who pays them. What do you say to that?
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Old Oct 5th 2014, 4:34 am
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Default Re: Health care

Originally Posted by bobd22
When in Spain do as the Spanish ask not the UK government.

I put the link on as it outlines the requirements, if you choose not to agree then fair enough. It is the case that different areas of Spain apply the rules differently, however if a person choses to comply with the 2012 rules for signing on the foreigners register then I think you will find that they will have to comply as is outlined, certainly that is the case in the area we have our property.
bodd22 not entirely relevant but more French guys in London than ex-pats in France. We accommodate them in our NHS services which whilst not as good as France do indeed carry out the work. Bodb22 and here you are with respect on notice is it better to look to the medical needs of the patient and then argue as to finance or simply say no. Is that the mantra of an alleged civilised society wherever that society may be?
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Old Oct 5th 2014, 4:36 am
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Default Re: Health care

Originally Posted by bobd22
isn't it sad when your own Government get it wrong then !..

In fairness in Sect 3 they do outline the requirements following the 2012 change
I don't really want to get into this any more but they call it "residency requirements" which Fred James declares is WRONG.

He states that one 'signs on the list of foreigners' and gets a 'certificate of registration'. I have to say that I agree with Fred on this and the UK Government are simply wrong in their use of terminology.
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Old Oct 5th 2014, 5:06 am
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Default Re: Health care

Yes I agree with your view.

Sorry fat finger syndrome that was in reply to porth,s comment
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Old Oct 5th 2014, 5:15 am
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Default Re: Health care

Originally Posted by snikpoh
I don't really want to get into this any more but they call it "residency requirements" which Fred James declares is WRONG.

He states that one 'signs on the list of foreigners' and gets a 'certificate of registration'. I have to say that I agree with Fred on this and the UK Government are simply wrong in their use of terminology.
I am not and have never disagreed with Fred's view on this ?,
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