Lynn R

The Hippocratic Oath was written an awful long time ago, I think I prefer the modern version quoted in the Wikipedia entry, which makes reference to a doctor's ability to end a life as well as save it.

I do feel that with advances in modern medicine many people are being subjected to aggressive treatment which they may not really want and which is not in the best interests of maintaining quality of life.

We have the ability to agree that a much-loved pet can be spared further suffering, and indeed it is seen as a kindness to do this. But we humans have to go on suffering whether we want to or not. If I were a doctor or nurse, I'm sure I would find it more distressing to care for a patient enduring a great deal of suffering and a long drawn out death than I would to administer a simple injection which would allow them a peaceful and dignified end at a time of their choosing. What is human about the Liverpool Care Pathway which involves withdrawing feeding and fluids, thus causing the patient to die of dehydration/starvation - eventually?

megmet

I totally agree with you Lynn we should have the option of a dignified ending, it only needs to be in the form of a fast acting pill that the patient (as long as they were still able) could administer themselves.
If I were to no longer have any quality of life I have instructed my family to send me to Switzerland....they have the right idea there!

JLFS

Terrible way to go, it is much better to be a pamepered pooch, a life with no worried and a dignified end.
Sorry it is not the same for humans.

The sad part about going to -switzerland, is that the journey can be traumatic and it is not the same as being in your own home surrounded by the family, because usually only one or two members accompany the person wishing to die.

I think something will have to be sorted soon, so that this becomes unecessary,uprooting someone who is very ill is not the ideal, but sadly for some the only way that they can get their wish to die in a more humane way.

Sad for the people who are facing this right now, in the not to distant future, who knows what will happen, I am sure things will be different for the terminally ill to stop this suffering dragging on.

HBG

When I visited my dying relative during her final days, it involved a half-mile walk to the care home. I had brought my most comfortable shoes from Spain, knowing about the walk.

During my nine-day visit, the shoes started to hurt more and more, the pain was unbearable over the last couple of days.

I was going to throw them out when I returned to Spain, but forgot about them. A few months later I put them on again and they were just as comfortable as before.

lynnxa

my dad's 'non funeral' (cremation, no flowers, no service to speak of cos myonlysocalledbrotherdownunder couldn't be bothered to come) here in Spain cost nearly 5,500€ last year

my husband's cremation, full service, 2 cars, flowers etc. etc. cost about half that last month in the UK - he lived here in Spain but died in the UK

get funeral insurance - not a 'paid for' funeral - you never know where you'll die

Domino

whilst I had seen that entry I ignored it - most doctors are frightened out of their white coats at the thought of a negligence claim against them and the resultant increase in insurance premiums. Better to err on the side of caution methinks, and I don't actually blame them.

after the death of a loved one, no matter how well signposted, there is always the desire to lash out - and the attending physician is a plain (and prime) target.

however the desire to stay alive is the strongest thread running thru the human body. I don't believe you can leave it up to the individual to hit the Emergency Power Off button, very very few are that strong or single minded. (how many suicide attempts are just a cry for help!!)
So it is left to the friend/relative to make that decision.

It is the care of certain individuals that can lead to medics at all levels to leave their position, no matter how good they are at it. Surely even assassins have been known to reach a saturation point and want no more.

Lenox

In Spain, you can ask for a 'testamento vital'. This lets you specify if you want to die at home, to be 'switched off from life support', if you wish to donate your organs, your body to science...
In short, to die with dignity.

JLFS

That is not the same as not letting someone linger on and on suffering.


That option is available in the UK too. Most people who are dying are not even on life support machine that is very few cases, where there may have been some hope after an accident operation,heart attack etc.

But terminally ill patients are not put on life support, and a lot do choose to die at home, but what I was talking about is when the patient is on the way out, either at home or in hospital, not eating, drinking, etc there is no hope and it could be a matter of hours, days or even weeks of slowly starving to death.

The choice of switching off a machine that is keeping you alive is a world away from helping someone to die quicker and avoid suffering by administering a drug or whatever.

There should be some way of ending this suffering, when there is no hope .

jackytoo

I have seen the Swiss place on TV and the thought of dying there is as horrific as lingering on in hospital. Looked like a cold room for a travelling salesman. I would prefer a shot of something in my own bed.

Are we morbid here or what Can't we discuss racism or something

Jerseygirl

Have you actually watched anyone who has been put on the Liverepool Pathway? 2 years ago as now my mother was put on the pathway...although she voluntarily refused food and fluids. When she began to show signs of pain she was put on a morphine injector.

Lynn R

I watched my father endure months of suffering in hospital. I saw him in pain and asked for him to be given more morphine but was told by the nurses that it was too soon after the last dose and it would depress his breathing. I was perfectly well aware of that, I just wanted him not to suffer and if I could have administered it myself, I would have.

One day I arrived at the hospital at the start of afternoon visiting hours to be told that my Dad had been non-responsive all day and was asked to contact my sister and brother so that we could meet with his consultant and surgeon. We did so and all agreed that all his tubes and drips should be removed and he be made comfortable. We all stayed at his bedside throughout the night and he was peaceful. However, the night Sister who had come on duty after the meeting had taken place said she saw indications of his vital signs improving and summoned a junior doctor who gave him an injection and he was put back on a drip. I pleaded with them not to do it but to no avail. My Dad lived for another few weeks and instead of dying peacefully with his family around him, died alone one morning and was found by a nurse who went into his room to check on him. I will never forgive that Sister, what was the purpose of prolonging his life only for him to go on enduring a living death.

HBG

It's such a difficult topic. When I visited the Alzheimer patient, the person I've loved the most in life, in the care home, she only once recognised me during my daily visits, and then only briefly.

She had a morphine injection pack fixed to her back and asked me to remove it, get her shoes from under the bed and get her out of there. I didn't know what to do but looked for her shoes under the bed.

When I sat up again, she had lapsed back into her uncomprehending state and I sat there for another hour with her shoes in my hand and tears in my eyes.

megmet

Lynn I'm so sorry that your father and all of you were put through all that!
Many years ago now we watched my father-in-law's life slowly ebbing away for eleven weeks in hospital, eventually they sent him 'home to die'.

He carried on for several weeks more with us all taking it in turns to stay with him 24/7, and with the district nurse coming day and night giving him injections and other medication..... he told us he wanted it all to stop.

The family were all in agreement that we should make his wishes known to the doctor, and fortunately for my father-in-law (who I loved dearly) his doctor was sympathetic....he was given a larger than normal dose of morphine and he gently passed away in his sleep.

I thank God for that doctor, he saved possibly weeks or months of suffering and he allowed a dear sweet man to die peacfully and with some dignity.

Lynn R

I'm glad to hear there are some doctors with the compassion and courage to do the right thing, Meg. A very close friend of ours died last year, and was looked after at home by the Macmillan Nurses who do a wonderful job. His sister called them when she arrived to find him very ill, the nurse gave him an injection and he passed away a few minutes later. If she helped him on his way, his family and friends could feel nothing but gratitude and it was certainly what he would have wanted himself.

Domino

on the list of Most Often Heard Words must be.......

I don't want to be a burden.

Those of us who are happy to die where we are may not have someone to say that to, but I know from my experiences that there appears to be someone in the family who will move heaven and earth to ensure that they eke their lives out with ever decreasing dignity because "it is what (s)he would want." Regrettably in those cases it is for the one that is left the action is being carried out not for the one who is going.

One good thing coming from a small family is few people to meddle at the last minute.

rgds