jackytoo

I don't care what they do with me, I won't know. I would like to die in my own bed wherever in the world it is.

jimenato

The thread has become about peoples thoughts about dying whereas I had hoped it might be about peoples thoughts about returning to the UK.

Never mind - I wanted to know about what people felt about dying as well.

I couldn't give a toss about where I die nor what they do with me after.

But I wouldn't like to have to return to the UK. That would be bad.

Domino

jim, as I said, where you die may not be within your control, it is something that I know I wouldnt be happy about, by which time it would be too late.

From time to time I am reminded, especially with threads like this, of my BH's experience with her late father. For a couple of months he was running round like a mad thing, kept saying there wasnt time to do everything. He keeled over with a massive heart attack, but she always believed he knew he was going.

I wouldnt want to go thru what my father experienced - a mixed ward in an NHS hospital where although unable to stand with a zimmer frame was sent home by a social worker because "he wants to go home", to a home where he lived alone, no support provided.
for his final couple of days he was so out of it with drugs he didnt know who he was letalone his children.

so dying here in Spain cannot be any worse, but as I also said earlier I may not have any control over it, all I would look for, be it here, there or somewhere else is that it is with dignity

megmet

We wouldn't want to go back to the UK, we burned our bridges when we moved here so there would in fact be nothing to go back to or for!

At the moment my elderly mother is in a care home in the UK, she unfortunately has dementia and she is to put it bluntly away with the fairies.
She has no idea where she is or who goes to see her, in fact the four weeks I spent over there at the end of last year when I went in to see her at least once every day... had been erased from her memory in less time than it took me to get home.
So if that's how we end up I don't see that it matters where the care home is or what language they speak, with dementia the people are in a world of their own, it's a living death and very sad to witness!

No I wouldn't go back to die, I'd rather spend my last days in the place I call home...here in Spain.

Domino

Meg, I always went with the BH to visit her mother with the same problem. She would sit there talking to us for an hour and then just say "well its nice of you to come - who are you?"
she also couldnt remember having a son and grandaughter who had been with her only a couple of hours before. He never came to visit her, even though he was there at least once a week.
It used to hurt me to see the pain it caused the BH, but mother passed away in her sleep just before Christmas.
Understand that is fairly common, the brain forgets to wake up from a sleep.

But as you say, sad to witness, and it appears to be on the increase.
There is little dignity, which we should be entitled to.

jimenato

Yes my Mother is much the same way - it's very sad. Last time we were there she introduced me to my OH - "Hello - this is my son". We've been married 35 years. Dad has all his mental faculties although he is failing physically. He has to sit and watch both Mum and himself getting gradually worse while Mum knows nothing about it. She is happier than him.

Domino

my mother died of marrowbone cancer aged 62, the only dignity was she was eventually give her own room for the last week or so. Prior to that she was in an open ward. She had a masectomy and they found the body riddled with cancer, didnt even bother to do a decent job of finishing off from that op. She had 3 months of agony and disappointment.

father died of cancer aged 85, the body let him down, whilst still lucid (before the drugs) he was as sharp as a pin, remembered everything, old or new.

all I ask for is dignity, a nice view would be a bonus, but I have never felt I would have any control over the end - not easy for a control freak.

jackytoo

Everyone with alzheimers isn't happy. They can become anxious and many are violent.Someone we knew had to return to the UK because the Husband was constantly wandering off and had bouts of violence. There was nowhere in Spain that could care for him, he is now in a secure specialised unit. My Grandfather was still sharp in his 90's. Used to travel to marbella on his own until the year before he died. Cousin's Husband started with alzheimers when he was in his early 60's.

I think more people are getting it because they are living longer. They can give the elderly new hips etc. and sometimes cure cancer but not aging of the brain.

megmet

Yes I agree it is actually more than sad, it's heartbreaking!

I actually feel it's worse than if my mother had died, I've already lost her but the frail body carries on despite the many falls and related injuries she suffers.
It hurts like hell to see her that way and to know I'll never again have a sensible conversation with her!
I know that in her mind she thinks that I've abandoned her there to die, when in fact I've jumped through hoops and spent a fortune to make sure she is well looked after and has money there for whatever she needs.

My mother would be horrified if she knew what we have gone through this last six months dealing with her affairs and getting her settled, in her very infrequent lucid moments she cries and says she never wanted to be such a burden to me.....which of course I don't think she is, I will do whatever it takes to make her last days as good as I can!
I still feel very guilty that I'm in Spain and she is in the UK, but it was her choice to stay there as it was mine to leave, I always thought she would spend all her winters here with us but that was not to be....I guess that's a down side to being an expat.

If we could choose our own end I would not want mine to be that way, far better a quick heart attack in the place you choose to live.... it's a shock when it happens that way but it's kinder on those left behind!

jackytoo

Megmet, I wouldn't feel guilty about it. My cousins visits her Husband every day and he rarely recognises her, when he does he turns nasty. We feel she has become co-dependent and needs counselling or something but she won't listen.

There ought to be some way you could leave instructions for mercy killing should you get it. Wouldn't want my relatives to be burdened with me.

Domino

Meg, your words are heartbreaking, even more so having seen only part of it myself.

in your case there will be grief and regrets as well as warm memories but you will have steeled yourself to accept the end at some point.
I am never sure that a sudden heart attack, as a car accident, falling in front of a bus etc is ever kinder, those left behind will permanantly have regrets about so much more, no chance to say that final goodbye, no matter how protracted yours is.

a loss is a loss, and never easy.

megmet

Yes that's my feeling exactly!

Yes Jacky I know I shouldn't feel the guilt....but I'm afraid I do, the problem is that all her life I've been more her mother than she mine, it's probably the reason I'm a 'strong' woman.

HBG

I've spent weeks at the bedside of at least two close relatives during their final days, once in a hospice and the other time in a care home for Alzheimer sufferers. My own helplessness during their obvious plight will always stay with me.

Both sufferers were receiving daily, ever increasing doses of Dia-morphine, with which I disagreed at the time, but now, years later, I realise that it was the appropriate course of action. (I think).

I now wish that both of them had made provisions for an assisted suicide to save them from all that horrible suffering, but it wasn't easy ten years ago, and probably isn't that easy now.

And every time I got on a plane to fly back to Spain, I felt guilty as hell. And still do.

Lynn R

I agree 100%. On any level, I just don't understand the reluctance to endorse voluntary euthanasia by any political party (provided sensible legal safeguards can be put in place e.g. letting people sign advance directives whilst they are still of sound mind, needing at least two doctors to approve it, etc). Those whose religious beliefs it would offend don't need to have it, after all nobody is suggesting it be made compulsory, but they shouldn't be able to force those who don't share their beliefs to live by them. The economic consequences of an aging population, many of whom will have very complex care needs, also need to be faced and not everyone will want to go on living at any price. I for one feel that the quality of my life is of more importance than life for it's own sake, I wouldn't want to live with Alzheimers, motor neurone disease or anything else that is going to kill me slowly. In fact I think I wouldn't even want to go on living if I simply get too old, frail and tired to be able to do things for myself or in fact do very much of anything.

Having said that, my only remaining aunt is now 87, still living alone completely independently and most certainly still mentally sharp, so perhaps I have I few good years left yet! Last time I went to see her she was telling me very indignantly that her doctor had had the cheek to ask how she was managing at home, and had got very short shrift. "I told him I'd been up on a ladder painting my kitchen ceiling the day before", she said. The only help she will accept is that one of my nephews looks after her garden now it has got a bit much for her.

Domino

Doctors and other healthcare professionals have the Hypocratic Oath to guide them in what they do http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath

but it makes no allowance for the wishes of the individual, other than the refusal of dangerous drugs when asked.

I don't necessarily agree with euthanasia, but I and none of my nearest and dearest are in need of such relief. It is a difficult decision for the individual and their loved ones to agree, but as some are showing here months/years of indignity is not a position to be in.

As I get older I have to grasp the situation as I find it. I trust any (in)action I may take causes the least distress to loved ones left behind when I cross the Styx