olivefarmer

Nothing will change. Gibraltar is too strategic to allow it to pass from British control. The rest is just academic stuff.

Garbatellamike

exactly right Ami and most of the media nonsense about at the moment inc Indyref2 are unnecessary and petty diversions - FOCUS is required.

EllisG

wouldn't that be nice but what would Spain do then ? wouldn't it be forced to declare war on Gibraltar for occupying land they are politically unable to remove their claim to ?

rspltd

I think you will find that Spain doesn't exactly have a glorious record in declaring or fighting wars.

amideislas

Gib is not asking for "independence".

But Scotland actually has a few tangible points. Eerily and ironically similar to the very same ones that brought us Brexit.

The Brexit arguments work for Scotland too
Every argument Theresa May uses against the EU can be turned against her by Nicola Sturgeon

Garbatellamike

So just as invalid then?

On another note I see Sturgeon has "magnanimously" decided not to go to court over holding a referendum and will seek a "political" agreement...... Having lost already in the Supreme Court over reserved powers she was never going to go to court - deceitful little minx

amideislas

That's among the most interesting ironies of it. While so many of the Brexit arguments turn out to be falsehoods, many actually do materially apply in the case of Scotland, who overwhelmingly voted to remain in the EU, and now faces a real version of what the UK falsely argued to leave the EU.

Unlike the EU/UK rhetoric, the UK is indeed demonstrably imposing it's will on Scotland against Scotland's will, as a matter of public record (and arguably NI, and it could be argued Gib, too, although Gib would apparently overwhelmingly prefer to stay British than become Spanish, even though it overwhelmingly voted to remain in the EU.) But since life in Spain isn't bad at all, I reckon Gib's aversion to being Spanish is mostly national pride talking. And that's OK, because Gib is pretty irrelevant anyway. Yet Scotland... is hardly irrelevant.

The unprecedented depth and breadth of the irony is one of the things I find most fascinating about Brexit. And the final closing irony; nobody gains anything from it. Everybody loses.

Garbatellamike

From a military strategic perspective Gibraltar is probably much more important than Scotland - just saying.

Loafing Along

It probably was 300 years ago.

Garbatellamike

for sure it was then as well

EllisG

who says everybody loses from Brexit ?? anything that potentially puts a nail in the coffin of the EU is always a win in my book.

Nothing was "falsely argued". It was a political debate regarding a single question so what you see as false arguments were either mistaken opinion or the legitimate intentional misinformation put out by people whose only goal was to win the argument for their cause. Anyone who really believes they were lied to in order to vote for what they now consider to be the "wrong" way is not smart enough to make a political decision and should have abstained.

Your claims are actually highlighting why a referendum is never a good idea. A professional politician would know that every time they hear something they find positive in a debate that they would have to listen carefully to arguments against in order to make a final decision....

for example if the promise of an extra 350 million in the health service appealed to you and made your mind which way to vote then you should have listen to the arguments demonstrating what nonsense those claims were.

rspltd

'for example if the promise of an extra 350 million in the health service appealed to you' Most people understood that this is the obligation the UK has to the EU EVERY WEEK. Where the bus was misleading it said 'send' and this amount of money is not sent every week. So let's use the figure that is the net obligation which is about £258 million EACH WEEK. I wonder what the UK could use this on in week 2, 3 etc etc.

amideislas

Erm...

Aww forget it. You've already decided to ignore the events of the past 10 months (or pretend). I can't solve that for you.

EllisG

was that directed at me ?

Not only have I not ignored the pointless debating of the last 10 months, I have also paid close attention to the preceding 300 years.

It matters not to me what arguments were used or lies were told to achieve the right result, since they pale into insignificance against the lies and deceit that are at the heart and the driving force behind the EU

amideislas

This is what I mean. I can believe that pigs fly, but it doesn't make it true.

Did you know that the EU and the single market were in large part, British inventions? And frankly, as a matter of public historical record, Britain has by far been the prominent purveyor of "lies and deceit" since it began, and especially in the past couple of years. It's not as if I'm the only one who's witnessed this. It's been covered extensively everywhere (except in the British tabloids, of course).

Currently there are two prominent icons of post-truth politics, and Brexit is one of them. I didn't fabricate that icon. Britain did.